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Boat Forum / Boats / December 2004albin 28 flush deck
I just purchased a 28 te new. Anyone have fuel consumption with the 315 yanmar? >I just purchased a 28 te new. Anyone have fuel consumption with the 315 > yanmar? I had a patient tell me that his Albin 28 cruised at 18 knots with a burn rate of 13 gph. I found those numbers hard to believe, but amazing if true. Let us know. >Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >From: "NOYB" noyb@noyb.com >>I just purchased a 28 te new. Anyone have fuel consumption with the 315 >> yanmar? > >I had a patient tell me that his Albin 28 cruised at 18 knots with a burn >rate of 13 gph. I found those numbers hard to believe, but amazing if true. >Let us know. A new 28 True World Marine (planning hull) with a 315 Yanmar on a jack shaft does 30 mph cruise while burning approx. 6-7 gph. And 40 mph top end burning 10 - 11 gph Capt. Bill >>Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>From: "NOYB" noyb@noyb.com [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >does 30 mph cruise while burning approx. 6-7 gph. >And 40 mph top end burning 10 - 11 gph These are amazing boats. The progenitors, Master Marine 28 Center Consoles were amazing boats also. It True World associated with Rev. Moon? Later, Tom >>>Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>>From: "NOYB" noyb@noyb.com [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Tom It is one of his "owned" companies, along with the Washington Times. >>Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>From: "NOYB" noyb@noyb.com [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Capt. Bill So the ads claim. Interesting boat, really, but unfortunately made by the Moonies. >Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >From: Harry Krause > A new 28 True World Marine (planning hull) with a 315 Yanmar on a jack shaft > does 30 mph cruise while burning approx. 6-7 gph. > And 40 mph top end burning 10 - 11 gph > > Capt. Bill >So the ads claim. Interesting boat, really, but unfortunately made by >the Moonies. Seriously!? And as I recall the similar size Shamrock with a Cummins ran at about the same speed and fuel burn. Capt. Bill >>Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>From: Harry Krause [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Capt. Bill Yes...True World Marine is a wholly owned subsidiary of one of Rev. Moon's operations. I first saw one of these boats some years ago at the Miami boat show, and was interested...and did a little checking. Here's some info you might find interesting: Each company listed is considered a Closely Associated Entity of the Unification Movement. These are companies owned, operated or controlled by the UC. In many cases they are businesses started by UC members. Some members start their own businesses but many others are the figurehead owners to conceal links to the Unification Movement. Alabama: Alabama Tokyo Express, Inc. # Montgomery Company owns Sakurabana Japanese Restaurant. Secretary of State records indicate company was dissolved 05/28/93. International Oceanic Enterprises, Inc. of Alabama # Lea Productions * P.O. Box 369, Irvington, AL 36544, 205 602 0655 Sosa, Inc. # Sunrise Fisheries, Inc. * Owns commercial fishing vessel Ocean Hope II. Bayou La Batre True World Foods, Inc. of Alabama * Formerly known as International Oceanic Enterprises, Inc. U.S. Marine Inc. * Bayou La Batre. Wholly owned by U.S. Marine Corp. It is a holding company for Master Marine, Inc. which builds boats. Alaska: Alaska Akaihana Corp. * Owns Akaihana Restaurant at 930 W. 5th Ave. Anchorage This company is a wholly owned subsidiary of Universal Restaurant Corporation. Angel Garden, Inc. * International Marine Protein, Inc. – Wholly owned by International Seafoods of Alaska, Inc. International Seafoods of Alaska, Inc * Kodiak, a wholly owned subsidiary of True World Group, Inc. Kodiak Island Charters * Ocean Enterprises of Alaska, Inc. * Ocean Peace, Inc. * Wholesale fish company that owns the vessel Ocean Peace. Company is 80% owned by U.S. Marine Corp. and 20% owned by Happy World, Inc. Top Ocean, Inc. * Company owns fishing vessels Top Ocean and Top Ocean II. Both vessels are 308ft. in length with Kodiak as their homeport. True World Restaurant of Alaska, LLC * Wholly owned by Ocean World Restaurant, Inc. True World Travel of Alaska, LLC * This is a New Jersey LLC that is wholly owned by True World Market, Inc. of Delaware. The company owns the Russian Heritage Inn located in Kodiak. Arizona: Mr. Sushi Corporation * Owns Mr. Sushi restaurant at 8041 N. Black Canyon, Phoenix Heavenworks, Inc. * Mesa Blue Sky Travel * Mesa Southwestern Tours * Mesa Arkansas: Seven Stars Corp # Owns Mt. Fuji Japanese Restaurant Little Rock. The Flower Man * Owned by church member Bruce Biggins California: Abbey Carpet Cleaners ABC Maintenance Co. Marin County Akaihana Restaurant Corporation * 1815 Williams St. San Leandro, CA 94577. California Department of Corporations records indicate the company has been dissolved. Aladdins Coffees, Teas & Kindreds/Warehouse Oakland American Chinchillas * DBA for One Mind Farm, Inc. American Freedom Coalition of CA, Inc. * Asset Design Network, Inc. * Bonsai World, LLC * Hayward California Service Company 4022 Santa Barbara, L.A. Champion Carpet & Wood Services * 13440 Paramount Blvd., Suite H, South Gate, CA 90280 Company is owned by International Exchange, Inc. Christian Bernard Stores Corp. * San Mateo, Costa Mesa, & Concord. Creative Designs/Gallery * San Francisco Creative Woods * 2929 Avalon Ave., Berkeley. Company owned by Chaim L. Durst the son of former Unification Church of America President Mose Durst. Crystal World, Inc. * Brea West Coast office. Decor Marketing * Found in many California malls. Original World Products Corp owns company. Essex Wholesale Fowers * 1815 Williams St., San Leandro, CA 94577 Family Federation for World Peace, Inc. * Flower King * 1815 Williams St., San Leandro, CA 94577 Flower World Farms * 4200 South Alameda, Vernon. Fine Motor Cars, 9821 Bigge Ave., Oakland 94603 415 632 6200 Ginseng of California, Inc., 880 81st Ave., Oakland 415 635 2811 Golden Gate Publishing Co. Golden Gate Seafood Inc. 1815 Williams, San Leandro Golden West Printing Co. # Good Carpet Care Hana Chain, Inc. # Company owns Hana Seafood Restaurant Fish Market & Sushi Bar 4535 Mission Blvd., San Diego, CA 92109 Hanjo Corp # Happy World America, Inc. * 4200 South Alameda, Vernon. Happy World Products, 17813 S. Main St. #115, Gardena, CA 90248; 213 327 6243 Healthyket, Inc. # HHTK Corp # IL Sung L.P. # Issei California, Inc. listed as general partner. InterLinear Technology, Inc. * Part of the MicroSignals Group International Travelers Limousine & Tour Co., Inc. # International Judo, Karate and Aikado School Oakland International Exchange Enterprises, Inc. * International Exchange Leasing, 9821 Bigge Ave., Oakland 94603, International Exchange Maintenance International Exchange, Inc. * 9821 Bigge Ave., Oakland 94603. Also 880 81st Ave., Oakland, 415 632 6200 International Exchange Press, 425 Brannon St., San Francisco, 94107; 415 989 6717 International Exchange Union San Francisco Issei California, Inc. * Mayflower Finance Corp. * MicroSignals Group * Alameda National Newspaper Corporation * 1301 Second St., Los Angeles, DBA used by News World Communications, Inc. in California. Notica Del Mundo * DBA for News World Communications, Inc. Ocean Challenge of Southern CA, Inc. * Ocean Church * 419 Cape Cod Dr., San Leandro, CA 94578 Ocean World Restaurant, Inc. * Delaware corporation with New Jersey address registered to do business in California. One Mind Farm, Inc. * 14751 Hwy 128, Boonville, CA 95415 One Mind Enterprises Mibrae Original World Products * City of Industry. Pacific Restaurant Corporation * 1815 Williams St., San Leandro, CA 94577. Company owns Hasegawa Restaurant 108 Petaluma Blvd. North, Petaluma, CA 94952 and Kiiroihana Restaurant 655 Union St., San Francisco, CA 44133. Pacific Rim Media Group, Inc. # Pacific Sunrise Products * Pan Pacific Asia Enterprises, Inc. Pioneer Seafood America, Inc. Problem Solvers International, Inc. Sacramento Restaurant Corporation # 1815 Williams St., San Leandro. Saeilo Machinery, Inc. * 14340 Iseli Rd., Santa Fe Springs Saeilo Machinery, Inc. * San Francisco Saeilo Motors CA, Inc. * 375 Bristol St. Ste. 85, Costa Mesa Sakurabana Japanese Restaurant * 1907 Capitol Ave Sacramento, CA 95814 San Diego Happy Foods, Inc. * Owns Sakurabana restaurant at 1031 First St., #101, Encinitas, CA 92024. Part of True World Group, Inc. Sawayaka, Inc. * Company owns Enshino Restaurant 17047 Ventura Blvd. Encino Seno Travel Services 150 Powell St., San Francisco Seil Travel America West, Inc. * Shien International, Inc * 16769 Bernardo Center #K 11, San Diego, CA 92128. Company owns Shien of Osaka Japanese Restaurant at this location. Shokuhin Development West, Inc. # Merged with New York company Shokuhin Development, Inc. Sun San Lee International, Inc. Sunko Construction Corp. # Sunlight Restaurant Corporation * Owns Ichiban Restaurant 22560 Foothill Blvd., Hayward, CA 94541. Part of True World Group, Inc. The Rose Shop Leamington Hotel, Oakland True World Foods, Inc. * True World Foods, Inc. of San Francisco * 1815 Williams St., San Leandro. True World Foods, Inc. of Los Angeles * Los Angeles, 2002 annual report filed in AZ states this company is wholly own subsidiary of True World Foods, Inc. of San Francisco. U & I Express # 4200 South Alameda, Vernon. Uni World Tensuke, Inc. * Los Angeles, retail seafood outlet. Unified Martial Arts South Pasadena Unitec Enterprises * A division of Saeilo Machinery of CA, Inc. United Seas Master Marine * DBA for Master Marine, Inc. Universal Marine Industries, Inc. * 1815 Williams St. San Leandro, CA 94577 Universal Restaurant Corporation * 20625 Alves Dr., Cupertino, CA 95014. Company owns Metropolis Bar & Restaurant 666 North La Cienega Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90069 and Ikenohana Restaurant at the above corporate address. World One Telecom, Ltd. * Part of the MicroSignals Group. Yamato Foods, Inc. * 1815 Williams, San Leandro 94577; 415 352 8140. Merged with Golden Gate Seafood, Inc. Colorado: Bloomingdeli’s, Inc. * Restaurant at 2301 E. Colfax Ave., Denver. Rainbow Fish House, Inc. * Changed name to True World Foods, Inc. of Chicago Sushi Heights, Inc. * This is a DBA registered by Bloomingdeli’s, Inc. Part of True World Group, Inc. Connecticut: Christian Bernard Stores Corp. * Farmington Kohana Restaurant, Inc. * Owns Hama Japanese Restaurant Hamden. Part of True World Group, Inc. Marine Landing Corp. # Subsidiary of Unification Church International. True World Foods, Inc. * Gloucester Delaware: Eastgate Development Corp. * Truck leasing company owned by International Relief Friendship Foundation. One World Market, Inc. * Tokyo Delaware Enterprises, Inc. * Company trading as Mikasa Japanese Restaurant 3602 Kirkwood Highway, Wilmington, DE 19808 Florida: A & S Flower Exchange, Inc. # 2882 NW 72nd St., Miami ASAP Shipping, Inc. # Christian Bernard Stores * Boca Raton Continental Development Corporation # Condevco, Inc. # Del Mundo Holding Co. * Delta Imported Flowers * 2882 NW 72nd St., Miami Merged with A & S Flower Exchange. Eden Delta Flowers, Inc. # Eden Floral Farm, Inc. * 2153 NW 86th Avenue. Miami Global Port Corp. * Name changed from Global Port USA Corp. on 12/11/96. Happy World America, Inc. * Miami Happy World Latin America, Inc. * Miami Infinity Realty, Inc. * 8180 NW 36th St., Suite 101, Miami International Ostrich Farms, Inc. * Miami Issei Housing, Inc. * 7337 NW 37th Ave. J.P. Flowers Company # Named changed to Eden Floral Farm, Inc. On 05/10/84. Jacksonville Seafood, Inc. * Subsidiary of United Sea Enterprises, Inc. which is a subsidiary of True World Group, Inc. Linda Sue, Inc. # L & M Unlimited, Inc. * Jacksonville Miami Bouquet Exchange, Inc. # Miracle Fish, Inc. * Miami N & S International Development, Corp. * Miami Solutant Corporation * 11205 NW 36th Avenue, Miami, FL 33167 Sun Flower Restaurants, Inc. # Sunshine Flowers * CARP business at 7371 NW 35th St. Miami, 33122 Tensuke of Hawaii, Inc. # Jacksonville The Sunshine Foods of Tampa, Inc. * Company owns Kaoribana Japanese Restaurant 13180 N. Dale Mabry, Tampa. The Unification Church of Florida, Inc. # 8514 N. Lynn Ave., UE, Tampa Tiempos USA Corp. * Delaware corporation doing business in Florida. Tropical Spring import/export True World Foods, Inc. * Florida Department of Corporation records indicate this company changed it’s name to Solutant Corporation on 5/3/01. True World Foods, Inc. of Miami * New name for United Sea Enterprises United Sea Enterprises, Inc. * Miami, Fictitious name registered by True World Foods, Inc. of Miami. Women's Federation for World Peace, Inc. * World Ocean, Inc. # This New York corporation had previously operated in Florida in late 1980’s. Georgia: 3L Corp. # Possibly a CARP affiliated company. Azumi U.S.A., Inc. * 5552 Silver Ridge Rd., Stone Mountain, GA 30087 Centem U.S., Inc. * Changed name from C F Han, Inc. Had previously owned New Hope Farms in Carrizo Springs, TX. International Auto Processing, Inc. * Brunswick, company off loads cars from ships at this port facility. Owned by Panda Motors Corp. IOE Atlanta * International Oceanic Enterprises, 2381 John Glenn Dr., Atlanta 404 455 9504 Miracle Home Style Laundry, Inc. * Atlanta Paradigm Capital Management, Inc. * Atlanta headquarters for this company founded and run by Bo Hi Pak's son James M. Park. Paradigm Global Advisers, Inc. * Delaware corporation with New York address also run by James M. Park. Rainbow Fish House, Inc. * DBA for True World Foods, Inc. in Chamblee Saeilo Machinery USA, Inc. * Atlanta Sekaino-Shiawase South, Inc. # St. Louis Fish House, Inc. # Taiyo, Inc. Atlanta The Atlanta Council for Community Change * Atlanta Tokyo Express, Inc. * Owns August Moon Japanese Restaurant Doraville. Transafrican Resources Ltd., Inc. # Administratively dissolved by Georgia in 1991. True World Foods, Inc. of Chicago * Chamblee Women's Federation for World Peace * Hawaii: Bali Hai Sport Fishing, Inc. * Dynamic Kona, Inc. * 2696 Waiwai Loop, Honolulu. Company describes business on Annual Report as “to organize and conduct recreational tours.” Hawaiian Forest Estates * Trade name used by True World Foods of Hawaii to sell coffee at: http://www.twfhawaii.com/products/coffee.htm. Hawaii Commerce and Consumer Affairs Department shows this trade name was assigned to Pacific Rim Integrated Development, Inc. on 3/19/99. High School of the Pacific * 74-5620A Palani Road Suite 106 Kailua-Kona, HI 96740. School operated by Pacific Rim Education Foundation. Kona Sportfishing, Inc. * 2696 Waiwai Loop, Honolulu. Receives mail C/O Dynamic Kona, Inc. Coast Guard vessel registration information indicates the company owns the boat Kona Concept. One Happy World, Inc. # 2696 Waiwai Loop, Honolulu, HI 96819 Company has been dissolved, last annual report on file listed the business type as investment farm. Pacific Aloha Enterprises, Inc. # 2696 Waiwai Loop, Honolulu Pacific Rim Education Foundation, Inc. * 2696 Waiwai Loop, Honolulu. A nonprofit organization previously known as the American Freedom Coalition Education Foundation of Hawaii. Pacific Rim Integrated Development, Inc. * 2696 Waiwai Loop, Honolulu. An article from Pacific Magazine dated April 3, 2001 identified the company as a distributor of the Washington Times. Pacific Rim Integrated Development Group, Inc. * 72-1040 Puukala St., Kailua-Kona. Sunny Seafood, Inc. # 1960 Kapiolani Blvd., Suite 115, Honolulu, Dissolved former retail seafood outlet. Tensuke Of Hawaii, Inc. * Trade name registered by True World Foods, Inc. of Hawaii. The President’s University # 2696 Waiwai Loop, Honolulu True World Coffee * PMB #982 74-5602 Alapa St., Kailua Kona, HI 96740 This is a division of True World Foods, Inc. of Hawaii. True World Kona Coffee * 2696 Waiwai Loop, Honolulu. Trade name registered by Pacific Rim Integrated Development, Inc. True World Foods, Inc. of Hawaii * 2696 Waiwai Loop, Honolulu. Phone 808-836-3222 World Fisheries of Hawaii, Inc. # 2696 Waiwai Loop, Honolulu. Company has dissolved. Initial paid in capital of $100,000 provided by Happy World, Inc. of Japan. Z & G Enterprises, Inc. * 2696 Waiwai Loop, Honolulu. Idaho: Sekai No Shiwase Idaho, Inc. * Owns Tsuru Japanese Restaurant, Boise. Part of True World Group, Inc. Illinois: AA High Tech * Division of Saeilo Machinery (IL), Inc. Akaihana Japanese Restaurant * Wilmette Chicago Seafoods International # Trade name used in the past by Rainbow Fish House Christian Bernard Jewelry * Chicago, Schaumburg, Bloomingdale. Ganada, Inc. * 2577 United Lane, Elk Grove Village 60007 Go World Travel * 5816 N. Lincoln Ave., Chicago 312 275 1500 Horizon Galleries * DBA for News World Communications, Inc. Korean Television Broadcasting Corp. * Chicago Koshin, Inc. 2577 United Lane, Elk Grove Village 60007 Lifespring Health Foods & Juices * 3/78 N. Clark St., Chicago New World Products – Butterflies Nohana Japanese Restaurant * Owned by Shiroi Hana, Inc. Paragon N/C Machining * Division of Saeilo Machinery (IL), Inc. Patricia's Gift Shop Harlem & Irving Mall, Chicago Rainbow Fish House, Inc. * Changed name to True World Foods, Inc. of Chicago Saeilo Machinery (IL), Inc. * Elk Grove Village Saeilo Motors IL, Inc. * 480 Industrial Dr., Bensenville Sea Ranch, Inc. * 3217 Lake Ave., Wilmette. This is a seafood store. Sea Ranch Grocery Store * 3223 Lake Ave., Wilmette. Shiroi Hana, Inc. * DBA for Nohana Japanese Restaurant. Part of the True World Group. Shiroi Hana, Inc. * DBA for Shiroi Hana Japanese Restaurant Sun Machining Corp. * Subsidiary of Saeilo Machinery (IL), Inc. True Nature Health Foods * Subsidiary of Il Hwa American Corp. True World Foods, Inc. of Chicago * Formerly Rainbow Fish House, Inc. True World Market * Assumed name used by Sea Ranch, Inc. Indiana: Ocean World * Seafood Restaurant in Indianapolis. Part of True World Group, Inc. Original World Products Corporation * 2113 Southlake Mall, Gary. Changed name to UV Sales, Inc. Sakura Japanese Restaurant * Indianapolis - Part of True World Group, Inc. Sakura Mart * Indianapolis Sakura Seafood, Inc. * Indianapolis S.S. Indiana, Inc. * Owns Sakura Japanese Restaurant Indianapolis. Kentucky: Tokyo Kentucky Enterprises, Inc. Louisiana: Gulf Fresh Tuna, Inc. * Tairyo, Inc. * New Orleans, company owns vessel The Rising Sun. Venice Wholesale Seafood * Venice Maine: Hometown Flowers, Inc. * Lisbon, ME owned by UC member Jim Caron Ocean Fresh Seafood, Inc. Owns Shiki Japanese Restaurant in Portland. No longer open. Maryland: Able Business Services, Inc. * Columbia American Bonsai * Annapolis Mall Christian Bernard Stores Corp. * White Flint Mall Computertots of PG County & DC * Brentwood, Owned by member Ann Brown. Dili Deli # Laurel Center Edington Rand, Inc. # Riverdale Excel Carpet Care, Inc. # Bowie Exclusively Roses * Gaithersburg 301 948 1806 Help Key, Inc. # Bowie Kaori Hana # Japanese restaurant in Chevy Chase closed 1991. New Wave Seafood, Inc. * Landover, merged into True World Seafood, Inc. of D.C. Original Heart Productions * Silver Spring, sells musical tapes made by members. Principled Financial Services # Sun Seafood * 3331 75th Ave., Landover. Trade name used by True World Foods, Inc. of New York. Third Millennium Software # Massachusetts: Amagi, Inc. * Boston Tea Company # Boston Principle Company # Charlie's Fish Trucks, Inc. # Ginseng Up Corp. * 16 Plum St., Worcester Gloucester Lobster Co * 95 E. Main, Gloucester International Lobster * International Seafood Company of Gloucester, Inc. * Gloucester International Seafood Company of Massachusetts, Inc. Kahr Arms Factory * 130 Goddard Memorial Dr., Worcester Ki Mat Paint Company * Newton Morning Garden Villa Western Ave., Gloucester New One Restaurant, Inc. * 121 East Main St. Gloucester, MA 01930 Rocky Neck Seafood Corp. * 148 Hampden St. Roxbury, MA 02119 Changed it’s name to True World Foods, Inc. of Boston on 03/02/99. Saeilo Machinery MA, Inc. * Company manufactures Kahr K9 semi automatic pistol. Sakurabana, Inc. * 57 Broad St. Boston, MA 02109. Part of True World Group, Inc. Sea Clear 95 E. Main St., Gloucester The Broom, Inc. * 111 East Main St., Gloucester, MA 01930 The Lobster Pool Restaurant # Gloucester True World Foods, Inc. of Boston * 22 Food Mart Rd., Boston Company merged with International Seafood Company of Gloucester, Inc. on 08/12/99 then merged into True World Foods, Inc. on 12/28/00. True World Foods, Inc. changed its name to Solutant Corporation on 05/03/01. True World Foods, Inc. of Boston * 111 E. Main St., Gloucester True World Foods, Inc. * 8 Norwood Ct., Ste. 122, Gloucester U.S. Ocean Supply Co., Inc. * 121 East Main St., Gloucester, MA 01930. This is the US subsidiary of the Japanese company Toitsu Sangyo Co. World Tuna Tournament, Inc Gloucester, MA Michigan: A Fragrant Flower * DBA for Hana International, Inc. Detroit Seafood & Supply * 45 E. 14 Mile Rd., Clawson Hana International, Inc. * Sold Kaori Bana Japanese Restaurant Happiness International * Subsidiary of Hana International, Inc. Il Hwa Ginseng Center 153 Arden Park, Detroit Noble Fish 45 E. 14 Mile Rd., Clawson Panda Motors Corp. 295 Kirts Blvd. #110, Troy Rainbow Fish House, Inc. * DBA for True World Foods, Inc. in Livonia Sky Valley Ranch Kalkaska Sunny Food for Thought 660 Woodward/18971 Livernois, Detroit Sunny Floral True World Foods, Inc. of Chicago * 45 E. 14 Mile Rd., Clawson True World Foods, Inc. of Chicago * Livonia Woo Chon Oriental Restaurant * DBA for Hana International, Inc. Minnesota: Daikoku Restaurant, Inc. * Owns Sakura Restaurant Rochester. Ginseng Tea Distributors of Il Hwa 3178 N. Clark, Minneapolis Mississippi: Master Marine, Inc. * Moss Point, Company is wholly owned by U.S. Marine, Inc. which is wholly owned by U.S. Marine Corporation. The Holy Spirit Association for the Unification of World Christianity owns 83% of the voting stock of U.S. Marine Corporation. The remaining stock is owned by One Up Enterprises, Inc., which wholly owns International Oceanic Enterprises, Inc. the parent company of International Oceanic Enterprises, Inc. of Alabama and International Oceanic Enterprises Inc. of Alaska. One Up Enterprises, Inc. is wholly owned by Unification Church International. Ocean Enterprises, Inc. * Owns Little Tokyo Restaurant Jackson. Part of the True World Group, Inc. Missouri: Saeilo Machinery (USA) # Saeilo of St. Louis # Trade name registered to Saeilo Machinery (USA) Montana: Kaori Corp. * Owns Shogun Restaurant Billings. Nebraska: Ichiban, Inc. * Owns Sushi Ichiban Restaurant * Omaha. Part of True World Group, Inc. Nevada: Christian Bernard Jewelers Las Vegas Décor Marketing * 3470 S Maryland Parkway, Las Vegas NV 89109 Fictitious Name filed by Original World Products Corp. Kabuki Japanese Restaurant * Las Vegas Kook Jin Moon Family Limited Partnership * Moon Industrial Real Estate, LLC * Kook Jin Moon is the Managing Partner. The company owns a condominium in Miami Beach, FL. Seil Tours, LLC * Las Vegas New Hampshire: Sakura, Inc. * Owns Sakura Japanese Restaurant Portsmouth. Tengu, Inc. * Owns Tengu Japanese Restaurant Nashua. This restaurant appears to be out of business. New Jersey: Balise Business Services * Moonachie Big Apple Franchising, Inc. * A subsidiary of True World Group, Inc. Big Apple Sushi * Trade name registered by Big Apple Franchising, Inc. Christian Bernard Jewelers Atlantic City Christian Bernard Stores Corp. * Crystal Marketing Associates, LLC * Clifton Crystalmarketplace.com, Inc. * Clifton Crystal World, Inc. * 120 Industrial Ave., Little Ferry Decor Marketing, 3 Caesar Pl, Moonachie, NJ 07074 201 933 2020 Elizabeth Cold Storage Co., L.P. * A fictitious name registered by New Marine Company, L.P. E N Enterprises * 408 Center St., Fort Lee, NJ 07028 Fine International Cuisine Corporation * Flower World Wholesale * 3234 Papetti Plaza, Elizabeth 908 351 3166 Genesis Production * 725 River Rd., Edgewater, NJ 07020-1101 HWA. Marine, Inc. * Elizabeth Happy World America, Inc * 3234 Papetti Plaza, Elizabeth Happy World Products, 3 Caesar Pl., Moonachie, NJ 07074 Healthy Lifestyles * Trade name used by Il Hwa Hobby World Development, Inc. * 100 Marin Blvd., Jersey City. Subsidiary of True World Group, Inc. Hometown Touch Publishing * Clifton Iner, Inc. * International Oceanic Enterprises * Elizabeth 201 661 0778 Issei Corporation * 21 Lawrence Ave., Lodi, NJ 07644 Izone Group, Inc. * 24 Link Dr., Rockleigh, NJ 07647. A subsidiary of United Vision Group. They sell sunglasses at kiosks in malls. Lee Shapiro Memorial Foundation * Liberty Seafood Restaurant * Liberty Harbor Marina, Jersey City M & M Tackle Shop * DBA for True World Outdoor Sport, Inc., Liberty Harbor Marina, Jersey City M & W Services * Liberty Harbor Marina, Jersey City Master Maine NJ, Inc. * Changed their name to True World Marine. MicroSignals, Inc. * Part of the MicroSignals Group based in California. New Age International Corp. * 408 Center St., Fort Lee, NJ 07028 New Marine Company, L.P. * 3234 Papetti Plaza, Elizabeth Incorporated by HWA Marine, Inc. New Marine Urban Renewal Development Corp * 3234 Papetti Plaza, Elizabeth, NJ 07207. Company owns the building at this address, which houses many movement companies. New York Fish House, Inc. * 3234 Papetti Plaza, Elizabeth, NJ 07207 908 351 1400. Company is seafood wholesaler with $15,750,000 in sales. Trade name for True World Foods, Inc. Original World Products, Inc. * 3 Caesar Pl., Moonachie 07074 Saeilo Motors, Inc. * 2044 Center Ave., Ste. 2S, Fort Lee, NJ. Saeilo Motors NY, Inc. * 480 River Rd., Edgewater 07020 201-840-0010 Saeilo Motors NY, Inc. * 8707 River Rd., North Bergen. Car Sales at this location. Sakurabana Japanese Restaurant * Ridgewood, NJ. Seil Travel America, Inc. * Fort Lee Senkai Live Fish * Liberty Harbor Marina, Jersey City Solutant Corporation * 32-34 Papetti Plaza, Elizabeth, NJ 07207 True World Foods, Inc. * Changed name to Solutant Corporation True World Marine * 120 Industrial Ave., Little Ferry. A.K.A. Master Marine True World Sport, Inc. * DBA for True World Outdoor Sport, Inc., 100 Marin Blvd., Jersey City U.S. Fish Home, L.P. * A fictitious name registered by New Marine Company, L.P. Wacom, Inc # W. Park 80 West Plaza II 200, Saddle River, NJ 07662 201 265 4226. This is a subsidiary of the Japanese company Wacom Ltd. Wacom is owned by Happy World. World Ocean, Inc. * 100 Luis Munoz Marin Blvd., Jersey City 201 435 3808 New Mexico: Golden Mexico, Inc. * Owns Sakura Japanese Restaurant Santa Fe. Oriental Star of New Mexico, Inc. # New York: 3L Corp # CARP business that changed name to Multimedia Research Group 6 East 37th St. Corp * Company purchased 6-8 East 37th St. in Manhattan from Continental Development Corp in 1997. This company and True World Realty and Property Management, Inc. have the same president. AA High Tech * Subsidiary of Saeilo Machinery, Inc. Abel Business Services, Inc. * Mamaroneck Accord, Inc., 481 8th Ave., 10001 (212) 714 1099 Acumedia Technology Development, Inc. * 60 E. 42nd St., #1166, NY, NY 10165. This company was incorporated in 1996 and appeared as a wholly owned subsidiary of CARP in IRS Annual reports from at least 1999 to 2001. The 2002 CARP IRS Annual report no longer lists any ownership interest in the company. Admiral Marine Electronics Corp. * 38 38 9th St. L.I.C., NY 11101 Alex & Ginseng Beverage Corp. # American Screen and Music NY, NY. Art Du Monde, Inc. * Subsidiary of Unification Church International Atlantic Communications, Inc. * Uses same address as Terralink B.F. Devco, Inc. # This company was a subsidiary of Continental Development Corp. Beverage Corp of NY * Brooklyn, distributes Ginseng Up. BFA Services, Inc * 1120 Ave, of the Americas, Suite 4132 Blue Jay Enterprises 401 5th Ave., NYC Blue Sky Tours # Business Research Corp. * 481 8th Ave., NY, NY. Canaan Health Foods # 1145 Ave. of Americas, NYC Canaan Travel Services, Inc. * 393 5th Ave. Listed as a subsidiary of the Canaan Foundation, Inc. on 1991 non profit tax return. Champion Interiors * www.ChampionInteriors.com Champion Services, Inc. * 103 N. 13th St., Brooklyn, NY 11211 Champion Realty Group, Inc. * 481 8th Ave., New York City Christian Bernard Jewelry Stores Christina Bahn, Inc. wholesale furrier 401 5th Ave. Condevco, Inc. # This company was subsidiary of Continental Development Corp. Continental Development Corp. * Real estate holding company. Creative Designs International, Inc. * 34 State St. Ossining, NY 10562, changed name to Hudson River Inlay, Inc. Creative Originals 120 S. Broadway, Red Hook, NY 12571 Creative Originals Properties, Incorporated # Creative Woods * Same address as Creative Designs Crossings * 4 W. 43rd. St., New gourmet coffee shop. Crystal World, 38 38 9th Ave., L. I. City, NY 11101 718 786 0259 Daikoku Restaurant, Inc. * Owns Kiiroi Hana Japanese Restaurant Delval Realty, Inc. # 200 Saw Mill River Rd., Hawthorne, NY 10603 Dumonde Gallery * NYC East Sun Automotive Corporation # 38 38 9th Ave., L. I. City, NY 11101 East Sun Building, 38 38 9th St., L.I. City, NY 11101 East West Link Corporation # 401-B 5th Ave., NYC Empowered Media Corp * 481 8th Ave. ESPB, Inc. * Subsidiary of News World Communications, Inc. Fine International Cuisine Corporation * Fir and Pine Corp * Company trades as Ninja Japanese Restaurant on Second Ave. First Generation Costume Jewelers, Inc. * Four Seasons Photo, Inc. * 2 East 37th St., NY, NY 10016. Freedom Tours, 53rd Ave. & 11th St., Queens, NY 718 784 5550 Fruitzer Co., 401 B 5th Ave., NYC 212 889 6095 Company owned by Ginseng Up Corp. Fuhriman Beat, 481 8 Ave., NYC 10001; 212 564 0599 Future Merchandising Systems, Inc. * White Plains Future Productions, 481 8th Ave., NYC 10001 212 564 0130 G. M. Bridge Corp. * 237 Mamaroneck Ave. White Plains, NY 10605. Ganada, Inc., 38 38 9th St., LI City 11101 718 706 0750 Ginseng Glass Garden 510 Ave. of the Americas, NYC Ginseng Up Corp., 401B 5th Ave., NYC 10017 212 683 1930 Glass Garden Manufacturing, Inc. * 60 Greenpoint Ave., Brooklyn Global Communications * Counter Espionage Consulting, P.O. Box 70, Irvington, NY Global Concerns, Ltd., 401 5th Ave., NYC 10016 (DBA Tongil) Go Tours, Inc., 38 38 9th St., LI City 11101 718 729 6594 Go Transportation, Inc., 38 38 9th St., LI City, 11101 718 729 6594. This is the parent company for Freedom Tours and Go Tours. Go World, Inc. * Travel Agency Go World Travel * 481 8th Ave., NYC 10001 212 067 8080 Changed name to Canaan Travel Services, Inc. on 7/24/89. The new address is 393 5th Ave. Going Up Press 401 5th Ave., NYC 10016; 212 683 4452 Gold Moon Enterprises, Inc. * 481 8th Ave. NY, NY. Good Connections, 481 8th Ave., NYC 10001; 212 279 1126 Good Food Café, 401B 5th Ave., NYC 10016; 212 686 3546 Company owned by Il Hwa American Corp. Hager, Bacus & Biermans * 4 W 43rd St., NYC 10036 212 869 5706. UC members who are attorneys and handle church legal work. Han Corp. * Owns New Hope Farms Port Jervis, NY. Company had owned 3,000 acre horse farm in Carrizo Springs, TX. This farm was sold in 1999 for $6.5 million. New York State Division of Corporations records indicate this company now uses the name United Vision Group, Inc. Hanam Asset Acquisition, Inc. * Same address as Hanam Capital Corp. Hanam Capital Corp. * 38 West 32nd St., Suite 1512 Hanam Consultant Services, Inc. # Dissolved 01/06/94. Happy Roads Happy World USA, 38 38 9th St., LI City 11101; 718 786 0187 Heung Young (America), Inc. # 481 8th Ave. Homeopathic Natural Supply of NY, 2 E. 37th St., NYC 10036 Hope Industries Inc. 316 5th Ave./325 W. 108th St., NYC Horizon Galleries * Dun & Bradstreet reports this is a trade name of Art Du Monde, Inc. HSA Communications, Inc., 481 8th Ave., NYC 10001; 212 736 2663 HSA Publications, 4 W. 43rd St., NYC 10036; 212 997 0050 Hudson Realty Associates, Inc. # Changed name to Hudson Aquatic Park, Inc. 04/18/97. Hudson River Inlay, Inc. * Subsidiary of United Vision Group, Inc. Markets wooden marquetry. Generally sold through kiosks in malls. I Travel, Inc. * 350 5th Ave., Suite 4901, 212 736 6030 Name change to Seil America Travel. Icusa, Inc., 481 8th Ave., NYC 10001; 212 239 1095 Il Hwa American Corp. 401 B 5th Ave. NYC 212 696 0130 Il Hwa Korean Ginseng Center * a/k/a Good Food Café Il Hwa Pharmaceutical Co. * Il Sung Construction Co., 38 38 9th St., LI City, 11101 INA Consulting # 481 8th Ave., NYC 10001; 212 714 1111 International One World Crusade * 723 Broadway, Tarrytown, NY 10591 International One World Communications Network, Inc. # 481 8th Ave. International Oceanic Enterprises, Inc. # Name changed to True World Group, Inc. IOE Group Consulting * 481 8th Ave., NYC 10001 Issei Construction Co., Inc. * New name for Sunko Construction then changed name to Issei Corporation. Japanese Typesetting Hikari, 481 8th Ave., NYC 10001 JEM Beverage Corp. # Jin Wha Printing Co., Inc. * 350 5th Ave. Suite 6106, NY, NY 10118. Merged with Hikari Japanese Typesetting, Inc. on 6/3/87. Katsugyo Restaurant, Inc. * Company owns Tenkai restaurant at 20 W 56th. Kenkoh American Company * Subsidiary of Il Hwa American Corp. Restaurant, Inc. * Owns Maruihana Japanese Restaurant 143 45 Fulton St. Manhattan. Kokoro International, Inc. * 401 5th Ave., NYC Korean Evangelical Association (another name for UC) Koya Mart # Life Enrichment Enterprises * Barrytown Manhattan Center Studios, Inc. 311 W. 34th St., NYC 10001.This company is a subsidiary of Unification Church International. Manhattan Opera House Ballrooms & Banquet Halls, Inc. # Master Marine, Inc. * AKA Master Marine of N.Y., Inc. 38 38 9th St., LI City 11101 Master Marine of N.Y., Inc. * Masterland Construction Co., Inc. * 481 8th Ave., NYC 10001 Subsidiary of Tong IL Enterprises. MCNY Group, Inc. * 4 W 43rd St., NY, NY 10036 Microsignals, Inc. 38 42 9th St. L.I.C., NY 11101 Midtown Sports Club * 481 8th Ave. NY, NY 10001 Moon Industrial Real Estate, LLC * Kook Jin Moon is Managing Partner Morningside Fish Market 1282 Amsterdam Ave., NYC New Future Photo * 481 8th Ave. NYC New Hope Sport * 34 State St., Ossining, NY 10562 New Yorker Health Resources, Inc. * 481 8th Ave. NYC New Yorker Hotel Management Co. * 481 8th Ave., NY, NY 10001. Aka World Mission Center New York Ocean, Inc * Owns Sonobana Restaurant 481 8th Ave. New World Products, Inc. * 401 5th Ave., NYC New Shopping World, Inc. * C/O One World Market, 38-42 9th St., 4th Fl, LIC, NY News World Communications Inc. 401 5th Ave., NYC 10016 N H Farms, Inc. * Uses trade name of New Hope Farms. Noble Productions, Inc. * 481 8th Ave. Oceanic Seafood Enterprises * Omoni Systems, Inc. # 47 Taxter Rd., Irvington, NY 10533 One Heart International, Inc. * 481 8th Ave. NY, NY One Heart Trading Company * 481 8th Ave. NY, NY. One Lite Electric # One Up Enterprises * 481 8th Ave., NYC 10001 One World Development, Inc. * 481 8th Ave., Room 611 Original Health, Inc. 481 8th Ave., NY, NY. Original World Products Corporation * Now goes by name UV Sales, Inc. Original World Products, Inc. # Oro Designs, Inc. * Owns Christian Bernard Store in Herald Square Paradigm Capital Management, Inc. * Founded and run by Bo Hi Pak's son James M. Park. Paradigm Global Advisors, LLC * Also run by James M. Park Paragon Book Reprint Corp. * Owns Paragon House Publishers. Company is owned by International Cultural Foundation. Pine Island Aquaculture * DBA for True World Farms, Inc. 250 Oil City Rd., Pine Island, NY 10969 Prime Energy Products, 401B 5th Ave., NYC 10016; 212 683 1930 Provident Developers, Inc. # Subsidiary of Go Transportation. Rainbow Enterprises, Inc. # Reiki Master Teacher, 481 8th Ave., NYC 10001; 212 239 0128 Ryugu America, Inc. # Owns Akaihana Restaurant 2164 Broadway, NY, NY. SaeGae Mascom, Inc. # 401 5th Ave, NY, NY 10016 Saeilo Equity Holdings, LLP * 630 Route 303, Blauvelt, NY Saeilo Machinery USA, Inc. * 38 38 9th St., LIC 718 786 2927 Saeilo Machinery USA, Inc. * 587 Route 303, Blauvelt, NY Saeilo Motors NY, Inc. * 69 15 50th St., Woodside, NY 11377; 718 651 8100 Saeilo Motors NY, Inc. * 428 Waverly Ave., Mamaroneck. Saeilo Refrigeration * 38 38 9th St., LIC, NY 11101; 718 937 9840 Assumed name used by Saeilo Machinery, Inc. Saeilo USA, Inc. * 630 Route 303, Blauvelt, NY 914 353 7770 Season to Season Florist * DBA for Future Merchandising Systems. Sei Shin, Inc. # Seil Travel America, Inc. * 401 5th Ave., NYC Seito Trading, Inc. * Long Island City Sekaino-Shiawase East, Inc. # Changed name to Shokuhin Development East, Inc. Shinshu International, Inc. # Changed name to New York Fish House, Inc. in 1985. New York Fish House changed its name to True World Foods, Inc. of New York in 1999. True World Foods, Inc. of New York is a wholly owned subsidiary of True World Group, Inc. Shokuhin Development Inc. – 350 Fifth Ave., Suite 6104, New York, NY 10118. This address is listed for service of process with the New York State Division of Corporations. Shokuhin Development East, Inc. # South Bay Gunnery Supply * 10 Dock Rd., Barrytown, NY 12507. This is the address of the Unification Theological Seminary. Company is a DBA for J. Douglas Williams. Hyo Jin Moon bankruptcy records indicate this subject purchased his collection of firearms and ammunition for $38, 795.39. Sunko Construction Co. * Current entity name is Issei Construction Co., Inc. 38 38 9th St., LI City, 11101 Sunlight Graphics # 401 5th Ave., NYC 10016; 212 683 4452 Tec Electric Corporation * Yonkers Teikoku Seafood, Inc. * 481 8th Ave., NYC 10001 Phone is 212 714 1441. Tenkai * Japanese restaurant in New York City. Part of True World Group, Inc. Terada America, Inc. # Terralink, Inc. * P.O. Box 1397 New York, NY 10018 The Glass Garden, Inc. * 60 Greenpoint Ave., Brooklyn 11222 The Natural Choice, 481 8th Ave., NYC 212 564 6039 Tong Il Enterprises 342 Front St., NYC Wholesale warehouse Tongil Trading America Co., Inc., 401 5th Ave., NYC 10016 Tree of Life Restaurant 521 3rd Ave. 101 W. 125th St. Trinity Corp. # 481 8th Ave., Suite 647, NYC 10001. Uses the trade name of Small Essentials. Records with the New York State Division of Corporations show company as inactive. Tropical Spring of NY * 401 B 5th Ave., NY, NY 10016 True World Farms, Inc, * DBA Pine Island Aquaculture. True World Foods, Inc. * Changed name to Solutant Corp. Corporation records filed in Alaska indicate as of November 30, 2001 Company was wholly owned subsidiary of True World Group, Inc. True World Group, Inc. * 481 8th Ave. 212-268-1900 Name changed from International Oceanic Enterprises, Inc. True World Group Consulting * 481 8th Ave., New York, NY 10001 212-868-2222 True World Realty and Property Management, Inc. * 401 5th Ave., NYC 10036 Uni Vision, 481 8th Ave., NYC 10001; 212 563 1320 Unification Church International * 4 W. 43rd St., NYC. This is a tax paying holding company based in Falls Church, VA. Unification Church World, 481 8th Ave., NYC 212 279 6766 United Materials Industries Inc., 46 09 54th Rd., Maspeth, NY United Vision Group, Inc. * Ad in Unification News listed Hudson River Inlay and Dimensions as part of the company. The ad mentions being part of the excitement of an Inc. 500 company. This is most likely a reference to a Han Corp. listing as the ninth fastest growing company in the U.S. by Inc. Magazine. This may indicate a possible parent/subsidiary relationship between the two companies. United Vision Sales, Inc. * Ad in March 1994 Unification News indicated the company was formed by a merger of Creative Designs and Original World Products. NY Division of Corporations records indicate company now uses the name of UV Sales, Inc. Universal Artist Management, Inc. 401 5th Ave., 10018 Uniworld Sea Enterprises Inc. # No longer open. UV Sales, Inc. * New name for United Vision Sales, Inc. which had changed its name from Original World Products. Vallsinvest, S.A. # Vertizon, Inc., # 481 8th Ave., 10001; 212 714 1090 Woloji Properties, Inc. * Property holding company located in Tarrytown. World Audio Visual Enterprises * WAVE 401 5th Ave., NY, NY. World Mission Center, 481 8th Ave., NYC 10001; 212 947 1115. World Ocean, Inc. * 481 8th Ave., NYC 10001 212 967 8365. World Research Institute for Science and Technology, Inc. * 38 38 9th St., LIC, NY 11101, Phone 718 937 7955. This company is a subsidiary of Unification Church International. North Carolina: Beautiful Flowers Co. * Charlotte True World Foods, Inc. * 9521-D Lumley Road, Raleigh Sekaino Shiawase of N.C., Inc. # Owns Little Tokyo restaurant in Cary Ohio: Back to Earth Champs Elysees * Cleveland, Owned by Christian Bernard Sores Energy for Life * Trade name filed in 1996 by Hsu & Company Hsu & Company # Changed name to Hsu & Company – McNaughton Road, Inc. Hsu & Company – Homer Road, Inc. * Hsu & Company – Morse Road, Inc. * Hsu & Company – Sawmill Road, Inc. * Hsu Retreat Center, Inc. * Utica Hsu Wholistic Health Systems, Inc. * Il Hwa Ginseng Co. Cleveland Organic Grocery Panda Motors Corp. 4400 Dixie Hwy. Hamilton Restaurant Japan * Columbus Saeilo Machinery USA, Inc. * Cincinnati Shinano, Inc. * Owns Akaihana Japanese Restaurant * Richmond Heights. Whole Earth & Unity Inc. Cleveland Oklahoma: Tokyo Japanese Restaurant * 7516 N. Western Ave., Oklahoma City. Part of the True World Group, Inc. Oregon: Blessed Family Association, Oregon * 2802 NE 21st Ave., Portland Ikenohana Corp. * Owns Ikenohana Japanese Restaurant Beverton. Part of True World Group, Inc. The Computer Exchange * DBA for Gregory S. Bowman True World Foods, Inc. of Seattle * 7911 NE 33rd Dr. #220, Portland Women's Federation for World Peace, Inc. * The same address as the Blessed Family Association. Pennsylvania: Christian Bernard Jewelers King of Prussia/Willow Grove Il Hwa Ginseng Center King of Prussia Mall, Philadelphia Tokyo Enterprises, Inc. * Owns Shiroi Hana Japanese Restaurant Trans Ocean, Inc. * Seafood company in Philadelphia. United World Enterprises Havertown Rhode Island: Japanese Restaurant Perry, Inc. * Owns Haruki Japanese Restaurant Cranston. Part of the True World Group, Inc. South Carolina: Crown Prints * 2060 Pineview Drive, Spartanburg, SC 29307 Sells foil prints online through www.foilprints.com. Sakura Japanese Restaurant * Columbia - Part of the True World Group, Inc. Tennessee: Tennessee Tokyo Express, Inc. * Owns Benkay Japanese Restaurant Nashville. Part of the True World Group, Inc. True World Foods International, Inc. * Bartlett Texas: C F Han, Inc. # Changed name to Centem U.S., Inc. This company had owned New Hope Farms in Carrizo Springs. Continental Development Corp # Decor Specialty, Inc. Richardson Dehen, Inc. * Owns Ginza Japanese Restaurant in Houston. Far East Corp. Far East Seafood, Inc. * Houston Han Corp. * Company had previously owned Crawford Farms and changed the name to New Hope Farms in Carrizo Springs. They sold the farm in 1999. Hana Sho Japanese Restaurant * Dallas - Part of the True World Group, Inc. Happy Oriental Food, Inc. # Horizon Galleries * 800 Belt Dr., NW, #200E, Houston. Horizon Galleries * Both Horizon Galleries are owned by News World Communications Oriental Enterprise, Inc. * Owns Hana Sho restaurant. Saeilo Machinery USA, Inc. - Dallas Saeilo Motors TX, Inc. * 9150 Emnora, Suite A, Houston Sakura Japanese Restaurant * Houston Shinano Club * Dallas Star of the Orient, Inc. * Houston True World Foods, Inc. of Miami * 4008 Commerce St Ste 200c, Dallas, TX 75226 United Sea Enterprises * DBA for True World Foods, Inc. in Dallas World Trends, Inc. # Utah: Sakura Restaurant Corp. * Owns Sakura Sushi Holiday. Vermont: Sakura of Japan, Inc. * Owns Sakura Japanese Restaurant Burlington. Part of True World Group, Inc. Virginia: A Master Marine # American Media Marketing, Inc. * Falls Church American Star Recording Studio # Beauregard Realty, Inc. * Company owns $2.2 million worth of vacant land in Virginia. Center for Spiritual Enlightenment * Christian Bernard Jewelry Stores * Virginia Beach, Fair Oaks Mall and Tysons Mall Concept Communications * Owns 28% of cable TV network The Nostalgia Network. Crown Communications Corp. * Owns Concept Communications Corp. Crown Capital Corp. * Owns Crown Communications. Deb's Deli Diner * Owned by church member Nathan Loew. Dimensions * Trade Name for United Vision Sales Group. Cart at Tysons Corner Center Mall that sells Magic Pens. Many of the kiosks or carts found at malls are seasonal. Doctor U.S. Pahk Heart Foundation * East West Services, Inc. * Falls Church, owns www.WorldTribune.com Exclusively Roses * Tysons Corner Father's Fish Richmond FutureRealm Productions * Richmond, Owned by Peter Brown Gene's Grocery & Deli * Owned by Grace and Park Corp. Global Image Associates # McLean Public relations firm no longer in business. Global Video Productions * 6400 N Seven Corners Place, Falls Church, VA 22042 Phone 703 237 7733 FAX 703 533 2946. Grace & Park Corp. * Owns Property in the Washington, D.C. area. Hana Enterprises, Inc. # Owns Yamano Hana Japanese Restaurant Hana Enterprises, Inc. # Owns Niwano Hana Japanese Restaurant Harvard Columbia Video, Inc. * International Seafood Co. West End, Southampton Ave., Norfolk International Video Services, Inc. # International Oceanic Enterprise, Inc. * 7777 Leesburg Pike, Falls Church, VA 22043 Kenmar Enterprises * Kingsway L.P. * McLean real estate holding company owned by Bo Hi Pak and family. Machine Industries, Inc. * Owns an interest in Saeilo, Inc. Modern Mailing Service # National Hospitality Corporation * Wholly owned subsidiary of US Property Development Corp. The company owns the Sheraton National Hotel in Arlington. New Wave Seafood, Inc. * Retail seafood outlet in Baileys Crossroads. Northern Virginia Properties, Inc. * 6723 Whittier Ave. McLean Northern Virginia Homes, Inc. * 8260 Greensboro Dr., McLean One Up Enterprises, Inc. * 7777 Leesburg Pike, Falls Church 703 448 7333 Panda Motors Corp. * Project to build cars in China now on hold. Panda Group Ltd. Paragon Investment Properties, Inc. * Burke, VA. Park Realty Corp. # McLean, Jonathan Park, son of Bo Hi Pak, is president. This company is the sole general partner of Kingsway Limited Partnership. P.G. Arbor & Company * Trade name for Hudson River Inlay. Sold wooden inlay pictures at Tysons Corner Center Mall during Christmas 1997. PMC Partnership # McLean Professional Resources, Inc. # Terminated corporation. Route 7 Realty, Inc. * Real estate holding company. Owns large office building at 7777 Leesburg Pike, Falls Church. Shiroi Hana, Inc. * Owns Shiroi Hana Richmond. Stein & Associates * McLean The Young Gruppe, Inc. * Tele Color Studio * Changed name to Atlantic Video, Inc. True Value Builders # True World Group, Inc. * Norfolk Unification Church International * 7777 Leesburg Pike, Falls Church, VA 22043. Main holding company for Unification Movement closely associated entities. U.S. Foods, Inc. * Merged with U.S. Property Development Corp U.S. Marine Corporation * 7777 Leesburg Pike, Falls Church, VA 22043. UC owns 83% of voting stock remaining 17% owned by One Up Enterprises at this address. U.S. Property Development Corp. * 150 S. Gordon St. Alexandria, Virginia Business Development Company, Inc. # Virginia Business Enterprises, Inc. * Holding company. Virginia Japanese Restaurant, Inc. * Owns Hana Zushi Richmond. Part of True World Group, Inc. Virginia Operating Company, Inc. # VP Enterprises # World Daily News Co., Ltd. # Washington: Coastal Properties Management, Inc. * 2440 W. Commodore Way, Seattle, WA 98199. Go 'N Joy Convenience Stores * Closed its stores after publicity over liquor license investigation. Company activities carried on by New Pacific Development Corp. Hisago Japanese Restaurant * Seattle - Part of True World Group, Inc. HWA Giant Clam, Inc. * DBA for Ocean Hope, Inc. HWA Smokehouse, Inc. # Owned by Happy World America. Changed name to Ocean Hope, Inc. on 4/4/89 and administratively dissolved by Secretary of State on 3/25/91. International Marine Farms # No current office in WA. International Seafoods of Alaska, Inc. * Seattle Koalas Roos & Kiwi * Three locations in Washington state. L.T. Finance Corp. * Merged with Happy World U.S.A., Inc. on 07/19/89 with L.T. Finance Corp. as the surviving entity. Merit Web Design * Monumental Development Corp. # New Hope Marine, Inc. * Seattle New Pacific Development Corp. * 2220 Marine View Dr. #100 Des Moines, WA 98198. Trailer parks are owned by this real estate holding company. Northwest Seafood Co., Inc. Ocean Peace, Inc. * Saeilo Machinery WA, Inc. * Renton, may no longer be in business. Sanshin Restaurant Corp. * Owns Kohan Japanese Restaurant Seattle Pictures * Shares P.O. Box with Merit Web Design Shiroi Hana, Inc. * Seattle Shining Ocean, Inc. * Seattle Sunrise Seattle Corporation, Ltd. # Seattle, Changed name to True World Foods, Inc. of Seattle on 05/04/99. Sunrise Trading * Seattle Sunrise Seafood Company * Seattle True World Foods, Inc. of Seattle * Doing business as Sunrise Seafood Company True World Foods International, Inc. * 2440 W. Commodore Way, Seattle, WA 98199 Wacom Technology Corporation * 1311 SE Cardinal Ct., Vancouver, WA 98683. The company is a wholly owned subsidiary of Japanese company Wacom, Ltd. Wacom, Ltd is a subsidiary of Japanese company Happy World, Inc. Washington, DC: 650 Massachusetts Ave. Associates, L.P. # Atlantic Creative * A division of Atlantic Video, Inc. Atlantic Video, Inc. * 650 Mass. Ave., NW Barker International Associates, Inc. # Baruch T.V. Group * Christian Bernard Jewelers * Georgetown Park Mall D.C. Holding Company, Inc. * Deli Sun (delicatessen) # Exclusively Roses * 1133 20th St., NW Ginseng Trading Corp. # Good Health Natural Foods * Health food store owned by Il Hwa American Corp. Happy Mind, Inc. # Happy Mind Home Shoppers Club. Home shopping service owned by Unification Church International. Health, Beauty and Longevity, Inc. * 3600 New York Ave., Suite 360 Joe Badra, Inc. * L.H. Baer, Ltd., Inc. # Washington, D.C. Middle East Associates # Monumental Construction & Moulding Co., 1512 14th St. NW 20024 Newslink, Inc. # Company is a subsidiary of Concept Communications Corp. It has over one million dollars of liens against it in the District of Columbia. This is a Delaware corporation. The state of Delaware has revoked the company's charter. NNI Acquisition Corporation * Corporate vehicle used to take Nostalgia Network, Inc. private. This is no longer a public company and is not required to file reports with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Nostalgia Network, Inc. * Cable network showing old movies. Controlled through stock ownership by Concept Communications, Inc and series of funding entities associated with the Unification Movement. PVI, Inc. * Formerly Pyramid Video, Inc. RFR International # Tropical Multimedia * DBA for Christopher McKeon Unification Church a/k/a Korean Evangelical Association Urban Grocery, LLC * Washington Times Corp. * Owns newspaper Washington Times Aviation, Inc. * 3600 New York Ave., NE, Suite 300, WDC 20002. Company owns a Bombardier, Inc. Turbojet. Model: BD-700-1A10 is a jet seating 23. The aircraft registration number is N338TP. This plane was registered with the FAA in the company name on 10/11/02. Washington Independent News * Washington Television Center L.P. * Owns the office building at 650 Massachusetts Ave., NW. This building has been assessed at $55,100,000. The largest tenant in the building is the Alcohol Tobacco & Firearms Agency. WTC Realty, Inc. * General partner of Washington Television Center L.P. West Virginia: Hana, Inc. * Owns Little Tokyo restaurant in Charleston. Sources report the restaurant is closed. Prospect Hall, Inc. * Real estate holding company. Prospect Hall Shooting Club * Operates on property owned by New Hope Farm, Inc. New Hope Farm, Inc. * Company owns 1, 095 acres in Berkley and Jefferson counties near the town or Middleway. Property is assessed at more than $1,000,000. The Washington Times Corp. and News World Communications, Inc jointly own New Hope Farm, Inc. Wisconsin: Kyoto, Inc. * Owns Ginza Japanese Restaurant Madison. Company is owned by Shokuhin Development, Inc. Wyoming: Sakura Wyoming, Inc. * Owned Sakura Japanese Restaurant Cheyenne. May no longer be open. Canada: Canadian Unity Freedom Foundation * (CUFF) Clearstone Breeding Farms – Onterio elk breeding venture active in late 1980’s. Family United Network * Sudbury, Onterio Hanida Ginseng Cosmetics – Toronto International Family Association – Active in the 1970’s. Our Canada monthly newspaper Rapkin's Products # Toronto Rocky Neck of Canada, Inc. # Changed name to True World Foods, Inc. of Canada Saeilo Machinery (Canada) Inc. # Dissolved 1999 True Family Gifts * Sudbury, Onterio True World Foods, Inc. of Canada * 268 Eddystone Ave., Toronto, ON M3N 1H7 True World Foods, Inc. of Canada * 2634 Sabourin, St. Laurent, QC H4S 1M2 True World Foods, Inc. of Canada * 12417 #2 Road, Unit 155, Richmond, BC V7E 6H7 World Education College of Applied Theology * Winona, Ontario For more, check: www.extremistgroups.com > Yes...True World Marine is a wholly owned subsidiary of one of Rev. Moon's > operations. I first saw one of these boats some years ago at the Miami > boat show, and was interested...and did a little checking. > > Here's some info you might find interesting: I don't know, Harry, but isn't this just another flavor of the Rev. Jim Melnyk? >> Yes...True World Marine is a wholly owned subsidiary of one of Rev. Moon's >> operations. I first saw one of these boats some years ago at the Miami [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I don't know, Harry, but isn't this just another flavor of the Rev. Jim >Melnyk? As in the Rev. Jim Meany being a Nazi? Later, Tom > >Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>From: "NOYB" noyb@noyb.com [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Capt. Bill Are you getting those numbers from Capt. Joe Verdino? >> >Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>>From: "NOYB" noyb@noyb.com [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Are you getting those numbers from Capt. Joe Verdino? That's advertised and based on what I've seen in other publications, it's fairly consistent. I'll tell you, I would buy one of the Master Marine CC in a heartbeat if I had the need for it. You cannot imagine the ride these things have in a heavy sea - it's amazing. Even for a relatively narrow beamed boat, it was pretty stable. I think it's the length and the extremely long forefoot with the sharp dead rise that allows it to ride so nicely. Later, Tom >>> >Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>>>From: "NOYB" noyb@noyb.com [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > I'll tell you, I would buy one of the Master Marine CC basskisser has a Master Master marine CC. >Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >From: "NOYB" noyb@noyb.com >> >Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>>From: "NOYB" noyb@noyb.com [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Are you getting those numbers from Capt. Joe Verdino? No their ad. I just looked at the Powerboat Reports Sept. 2004 issue where they test one and they saw 22 knot cruise at 7 gph. And a max speed of just a tick over 30 knots and max gph of 12. Capt. Bill Capt. Bill >>Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>From: "NOYB" noyb@noyb.com [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Capt. Bill Come on Capt. you????, not Chucky of course but ...... :-) Approx 6-7 gph??? is this one of those Chucky help make a sale "approx" gals?? or a standard US gal??? Best you get some references where Yanmar themselves have publicly made claims anything like that, they haven't I can assure you they'd get well sued, probably by Cat or Cummins etc:-). The best you'll find are vague "testimonials" about this & that, never any proper numbers. The boating magazines print this type of nonsense all the time, everyone knows they're inexperienced simpletons, but it's well out of order for the manufacturers to even allow such false marketing BS to remain uncorrected. These engines are a converted Toyota Landcruiser diesel (hey great news for Landcruiser drivers!!! you too need never buy fuel again:-)) & if run continuously above about 250HP for more than a very short time will drop their fuel consumption to nil:-) so you can forget all about the mystical "top end burning" in gph terms for even 1 straight hour:-). However even if 11gph were true it raises a much more difficult question, fore it would mean these engines are only making about 180-190 HP flat out!!!; sad really when they're marketed as 315 hp diesels. If that engine really is using say 7 USgal/hr it's probably not making much more than 120HP so you now have a diesel powered 28 ft boat, what 4-5 ton???, "cruising" at 30 mph on 120HP??? & the same boat doing 40 mph on 190HP???? Curiouser & curiouser said Alice. Be skeptical of the magazines they're the source of much false information & those that then repeat it unquestioningly are only demonstrating their own lack of experience. Needless to say we even have one here who continues to write it even though we've offered to run the numbers, so it follows it's just marketing BS from BS'ers. Oops almost forgot, have a merry christmas or hanukkah if that suits you:-) K >>> Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>> From: "NOYB" noyb@noyb.com [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > order for the manufacturers to even allow such false marketing BS to > remain uncorrected. Actually, the inexperienced simpleton is you. Most of the boating magazines that publish "testing results" know how to hook up and read a fuel flow meter. And their writers actually have access to boats. Unlike you. >>>> Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>>> From: "NOYB" noyb@noyb.com [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Unlike you. Dear dear dear again Krause you confirm what a liar you are & certainly not a boat owner of any boat much less of a 36ft lobster boat with a big Cummins inside Also try to keep in mind my OBs like Yanmar use Toyota diesels as the core, so I just "might" have better first hand knowledge of this than most here; but hey always happy to check anything, so what on the point information have you got to say????? what?? nothing on the fuel usage grams/KW/hr??? nothing???......nothing at all??? as usual. The particular injection pump used on these engines is high bypass, so if any of these magazine simpletons tell you they "hook up & read a fuel flow meter" for one of their marketing "tests" on these indeed most marine diesels (NB not all), just giggle; as we do. You might one day own a real boat Krause, instead of your endless lies then by all means come along here & join in the boating discussions this can be a good informative NG, gee it'll help even you to learn a bit about boats. Till then............ If you want confirmation what a load of marketing fluff these magazine tests are mostly written by simpletons for simpletons, have a read of some of your mates spam posted here:-) K >>>>> Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>>>> From: "NOYB" noyb@noyb.com [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> >> Unlike you. Also try to keep in mind my OBs like Yanmar use Toyota diesels as > the core, so I just "might" have better first hand knowledge of this > than most here; but hey always happy to check anything, so what on the > point information have you got to say????? what?? nothing on the fuel > usage grams/KW/hr??? nothing???......nothing at all??? as usual. You don't know feces from shoepolish. My comment was that the magazines that actually do testing of fuel flow or consumption actually do these tests and come up with legitimate figures. and that they don't just make up numbers and publish them. If I read an evaluation of the boat in question in Boating, and it was accompanied by "test" results, I would be those results would be for real. While the magazine doesn't publish a lot of negative info about the boats it looks over, it doesn't fake statistical data on boat tests. I believe the fuel flow figures quoted by the original poster were from an ad, not from an independent test. Your OBs? What a crock of crap. Your claim that you "manufacture" some sort of diesel outboard is nothing but bullship. No one has ever seen one, no one has ever seen an ad for one, no one has ever seen a plant where you "manufacture" them, no one has ever seen a box in which you've shipped one, and there's no readily available information around that indicates you have any involvement in a going venture that manufactures anything. That monstrosity of a rusty kit-based "outboard" that you depict on the back of your clapped-out, piece of crap boat wouldn't sell as a boat anchor. >>>>>> Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>>>>> From: "NOYB" noyb@noyb.com [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > real. While the magazine doesn't publish a lot of negative info about > the boats it looks over, it doesn't fake statistical data on boat tests. I didn't say "they" faked it what I did say & maintain is; > The boating magazines print this type of nonsense all the time, everyone knows they're inexperienced simpletons, they're just too inexperienced to challenge what they're told!! Again so that even you may understand, a fuel flow check will tell you how much fuel some (NB some) petrol engines are using & the "flow" meters are reasonably accurate. However when it comes to diesel engines it's more complicated, certainly it's possible to set up a flow meter to give you the fuel used readout, but it's more than any of your magazine simpletons know about, so they never do it (because they can't:-)) What they do is just parrot the numbers given them by the seller!!! without any understanding or warning that this number might be just marketing BS. Indeed right there any magazine worth anything would be saying gee this claim is unsubstantiated in any real fashion, unchecked by us & is inconsistent with the known HP vs diesel consumption requirements of boats in this class, if the seller wants to promote the number it probably means most everything else they say is suspect??? Is it that anything else they know can't or won't readily be checked is also BS??? Is the hull layup & materials as claimed??? the base metal of the fittings?? the work quality in general???? Hmmm a magazine could get a real rep with readers, not so good with the advertisers they're really chasing. You claim to be in "union publishing" yet you don't even seem to have a clue about that Krause, the "magazines" get 2/5 or 3/8 of not much back from magazine "sales" to dreamers like you, after the distribution, retailer, returns etc in other words their income is from "paid" advertising, & that's why they are just another arm of marketing. How hard is it to go back to the engine manufacture or do the numbers themselves, not only will the most basic of effort uncover the fuel consumption numbers are a lie but worse, given the known state of how diesel engines work in this universe the spruiked numbers are impossible. Remember chucky's "test" on the other 28ftr??? a load of parroted marketing BS nothing more. > I believe the fuel flow figures quoted by the original poster were from > an ad, not from an independent test. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > depict on the back of your clapped-out, piece of crap boat wouldn't sell > as a boat anchor. Dear dear dear you're a jealous little liar aren't you?? I have never & don't make claims, however as far as Toyota based diesel marine engines go I do claim to have some understanding; but hey if anyone else wants to claim they use them & have different numbers, well let's hear it I'll be very very interested. Diesel engines are much more fuel efficient that petrol engines HP vs HP but they are also "mostly" (not all) heavier HP vs HP the raw numbers would say you can save 25-30% on fuel consumption using a diesel, but the extra weight etc etc means you will more likely see something closer to 20% because it takes more HP to push a heavier boat & the faster a boat is traveling the more impact any extra weight has. A 28ft boat doing 40 mph on 11 usgals/hr is just away with the fairies stuff & any experienced boat person would immediately call it for what it is, just as I call you as an uneducated lying union thug. K >>>>>>> Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>>>>>> From: "NOYB" noyb@noyb.com [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > readout, but it's more than any of your magazine simpletons know about, > so they never do it (because they can't:-)) That's just another of your idiotic, jealousy-based, nonsense claims. Go smoke some more hemp. > You claim to be in "union publishing" yet you don't even seem to > have a clue about that Krause, the "magazines" get 2/5 or 3/8 of not > much back from magazine "sales" to dreamers like you, after the > distribution, retailer, returns etc in other words their income is from > "paid" advertising, & that's why they are just another arm of marketing. Any idiot, and that certainly includes you, knows that magazines full of ads make most of their money from the ads. >Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >From: "K. Smith" ksmith1@msn.com >>>Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>>From: "NOYB" noyb@noyb.com [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Approx 6-7 gph??? is this one of those Chucky help make a sale "approx" >gals?? or a standard US gal??? > > Best you get some references where Yanmar themselves have publicly made >claims anything like that, they haven't I can assure you they'd get well >sued, probably by Cat or Cummins etc:-). The best you'll find are vague >"testimonials" about this & that, never any proper numbers. I just looked at the Powerboat Reports Sept. 2004 issue where they tested one and they saw 22 knot cruise at 7 gph. And a max speed of just a tick over 30 knots and max gph of 12. > The boating magazines print this type of nonsense all the time, >everyone knows they're inexperienced simpletons, but it's well out of >order for the manufacturers to even allow such false marketing BS to >remain uncorrected. Yeah, yeah and they're all published on a grass knoll. > These engines are a converted Toyota Landcruiser diesel (hey great news >for Landcruiser drivers!!! you too need never buy fuel again:-)) & if >run continuously above about 250HP for more than a very short time will [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >much more than 120HP so you now have a diesel powered 28 ft boat, what >4-5 ton???, 6800 lb dry. "cruising" at 30 mph on 120HP??? & the same boat doing 40 >mph on 190HP???? Curiouser & curiouser said Alice. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >though we've offered to run the numbers, so it follows it's just >marketing BS from BS'ers. Instead of running the numbers, get one and hook up a flow meter and get back to us. > Oops almost forgot, have a merry christmas or hanukkah if that suits you:-) I celabrate Festivus, thanks. And by the way, were you perhaps molested as a young girl by a boat broker/ OEM sales rep. selling magazine subscriptions by any chance? Capt. Bill >>Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>From: "K. Smith" ksmith1@msn.com > And by the way, were you perhaps molested as a young girl by a boat broker/ OEM > sales rep. selling magazine subscriptions by any chance? > > Capt. Bill My guess: she's never been touched by a male, and when she dies, her body will be stamped: returned unopened. >>Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>From: "K. Smith" ksmith1@msn.com [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > they saw 22 knot cruise at 7 gph. And a max speed of just a tick over 30 knots > and max gph of 12. Well then post the link, I'll be most interested to see how they verified the fuel consumption, particularly as they're saying they "know" at cruise & max. Absolute crap they're just parroting what the seller says & the seller is .... well selling. "If" these engines really do make 315HP (very, very, skeptical) then at "max" that engine will be drinking a min of 18 usgal/hr but more likely well over 20 gal/hr, if not then all the big diesel manufacturers have been wasting their time & huge amounts of money trying to get lower fuel usage, when all along the engine in their weekend bush basher was getting better than their millions spent on improvements of 1 or 2 grams per HP per hour. > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Yeah, yeah and they're all published on a grass knoll. Gee you have the front or ego or both:-) to put "capt." in your sig yet you fall for this marketing nonsense?? You better get some real boating experience or are you just another Krause style magazine dreamer???:-) >> These engines are a converted Toyota Landcruiser diesel (hey great news > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > 6800 lb dry. Again are you really going to accept this nonsense?? 5600lbs dry which is still optimistic but with no anything, no engines drives liquids etc etc etc yet you swallow this??? 4 tonnes is probably about right or you can just magazine dream on. Again with trailer boats (this is) how hard is it for them (magazines) to take it to any public weighbridge & have the numbers actually checked in the condition it's so called "tested"?? well that wouldn't be good for sales would it???:-) > "cruising" at 30 mph on 120HP??? & the same boat doing 40 > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Instead of running the numbers, get one and hook up a flow meter and get back > to us. It's certainly possible we do it all the time with diesels, but it's not a simple thing to do & that's why your dumbo magazines think they can get away with just parroting what the seller spruiks, as I said post the link as to how they checked the fuel usage at the various speeds as they claim???? I can assure you it's bunkum of the first order, but what is more serious is you are so inexperienced you actually believe it!!:-) >> Oops almost forgot, have a merry christmas or hanukkah if that suits > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > And by the way, were you perhaps molested as a young girl by a boat broker/ OEM > sales rep. selling magazine subscriptions by any chance? "Capt" I love it!!! capt gullible I bet you sit in the armchair with your magazines wearing a capt. cap:-) K > Capt. Bill >> I just looked at the Powerboat Reports Sept. 2004 issue where they tested one >> and [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >getting better than their millions spent on improvements of 1 or 2 grams >per HP per hour. PowerBoat reports does state this, but I don't think they installed their own meters. The charts in the article state the info is from Yanmar and True World data. >>>I just looked at the Powerboat Reports Sept. 2004 issue where they tested one >>>and [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > The charts in the article state the info is from Yanmar and True World > data. Thanks Wally, so there ya go no actual knowledge of how much fuel the boat burnt at various speeds etc. Just accepted what the seller told them & of course given that a big part of the marketing is super low fuel consumption ......... Thing is it's one thing for brand loyal owners to write fairy tale testimonials, even the seller I guess will try to put the best spin possible on every aspect of the boat, but the magazines claim to know & be experienced in this stuff & they clearly aren't. By just repeating the sellers marketing spruik they are part of a deception but to then try to pretend they have checked the numbers?? well it seems they're knowingly part of the marketing deception. Those figures should have at the very least set alarm bells off, but they haven't even checked??? Hmmmm curiouser & curiouser said Alice; hey!!!! "maybe" (NB maybe) they did & it didn't come out even remotely close to claim (it wouldn't), then of course the seller says yes yes sorry about that chief;-) dirty bottom, wrong wind/sea state, full tanks, test boat you know think the prop copped a knock, it's Wednesday, every & any excuse will be proffered all BS of course but nudge nudge wink wink:-) K. Diesel engine manufacturers know and publish very accurate fuel consumption data. Competition keeps them honest. A given engine in good tune will burn a given quantity of fuel at a given load or power level. Load being a factor of speed vs weight generally. Lot's of conditions contribute to load on a boat. Windage, bottom condition, type of water, altitude, temperature, etc. That's why data is generally published for a standard set of conditions. Manufacturers sometimes have the benefit of testing fuel consumption for a specific hull under varying conditions. They often publish the findings. Boat builders often share the data if favorable to them. The potential liability for publishing false data is sufficient to keep just about everyone honest. In my previous life I was a PM for the construction of a towboat. We opted for large twin Cats. Cat predicted with very high accuracy exactly what fuel consumption we would have with the engines. Perhaps life in Oz is different. Butch >>>>I just looked at the Powerboat Reports Sept. 2004 issue where they >>>>tested one [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > K. >Perhaps life in Oz is different. Of course it is. They are upside down. And they talk funny. :>) Later, Tom - who is waiting for the relatives and kids to arrive for the annual holiday extended family reunion. I'm SO glad there is football this afternoon. >>Perhaps life in Oz is different. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > annual holiday extended family reunion. I'm SO glad there is football > this afternoon. I figured out what is missing in your life... You need a somewhat winterized boat with a nice cabin, a heater, a couch and a TV set...on which you have to head out to to do endless maintenance... >>>Perhaps life in Oz is different. >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >You need a somewhat winterized boat with a nice cabin, a heater, a couch >and a TV set...on which you have to head out to to do endless maintenance... Yes - yes I do. Later, Tom > Diesel engine manufacturers know and publish very accurate fuel consumption > data. Competition keeps them honest. Agreed & that's exactly why Yanmar "aren't" making this claim, some seller & dreamers' magazine are. > A given engine in good tune will burn a given quantity of fuel at a given > load or power level. Load being a factor of speed vs weight generally. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > liability for publishing false data is sufficient to keep just about > everyone honest. So now you're saying that the magazines don't actually "test" diesel??? OK progress at last!!! They certainly word their claims like they already know they're suspect numbers, the infamous chuckster's "about" gallons, in his world they must be huge, how many litres in a chuckster gallon??? or gees louise I suppose there's chuckster litres there too??:-) > In my previous life I was a PM for the construction of a towboat. We opted > for large twin Cats. Cat predicted with very high accuracy exactly what > fuel consumption we would have with the engines. Yes that's true & I'm well familiar with fuel consumption of marine diesels that's why when just strolling past the thread I near fell over. So now all you or anyone need do is find a proper Yanmar link which claims anything like 315HP on 11 usgal/hr, I can't but hey Butch you bought a Ficht so I'm sure you'll lead us all to one in a jiff. > Perhaps life in Oz is different. I'll say it is!!! here that sort of BS marketing nonsense went out years ago. Any experienced diesel boat person would just giggle in their face, our fuel is dearer than yours so .................. we bother to find out the facts rather than rely upon spruikers claims, you should try it, oops too late you already have the Ficht:-) It's not my fault you lost so much money on the Ficht Butch, I'm just the messenger. Besides yours seemed to keep working so you just lost boat value; got off lighter than you deserve in my view:-) K > Butch > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] >> >>K. >> Diesel engine manufacturers know and publish very accurate fuel >> consumption data. Competition keeps them honest. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > claims anything like 315HP on 11 usgal/hr, I can't but hey Butch you > bought a Ficht so I'm sure you'll lead us all to one in a jiff. http://www.yanmarmarine.com/products/pdf/LPA/6LPA-DTP_TechnData.pdf The URL listed above shows the 315 hp Yanmar produces about 250 hp at 3400 rpm and burns around 11 gph. The max rpm for the engine is 3800 rpm, but only an idiot would run that diesel higher than cruise for sustained periods. Thus, the engine under whatever standard conditions are for it burns 11 gph at a high cruise rpm. Thanks, Harry. Just what I was going to point out to the K. The HP an engine makes is dependent upon the fuel it is flowing. If a boat is running at cruise speed the engine is far from operating at WOT, and is therefore flowing far less fuel than that required to make the rated HP. Clearly the K failes to read the entire data sheet... she simply looks for anything that supports her position and presents it as though it is the only fact(?) that matters. It's too funny that she rants about the money I've lost because I bought a FICHT in 1999. I'll have been running the engine for six years this spring. No problems have appeared of any kind. My only expense has been for fuel and oil and annual lower unit oil changes. Call me a liar, I changed plugs as a preventive maintenance action last March at my annual maintenace interval. I may rework the water pump this spring but probably not. Our climate allows me to use the boat year round so idle time is not an issue. I've no idea how much cost I've avoided through increased fuel and oil economy. Depreciation is a non-factor for a boat/engine of this age and if my health continues to allow I'll run this rig for many more years. What's with the K and FICHT? BTW, K, Where did you read in anything I wrote that I admit that magazines do not do fuel flow testing on diesels. It is such an amazingly simple test to run that I can't imagine why they would not run the test? Happy Holidays. Butch >>> Diesel engine manufacturers know and publish very accurate fuel >>> consumption data. Competition keeps them honest. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > Thus, the engine under whatever standard conditions are for it burns 11 > gph at a high cruise rpm. > Thanks, Harry. Just what I was going to point out to the K. The HP an > engine makes is dependent upon the fuel it is flowing. If a boat is running > at cruise speed the engine is far from operating at WOT, and is therefore > flowing far less fuel than that required to make the rated HP. Seems impossible I know but are you as mad as Krause??? Again the claim is at a 22 mph cruise it uses 6-7 usgal/hr & at "max" the boat does 40 mph on 11 usgal/hr. Why are you thanking the lying idiot?? he posted crap about a totally different engine, an engine with a max power of 260 HP!!! NOT 315 HP or are you so stupid you think the engine that makes 315 HP doesn't use any more fuel??? > Clearly the K failes to read the entire data sheet... she simply looks for > anything that supports her position and presents it as though it is the only > fact(?) that matters. The data sheet is for a 248-260 HP engine & the fuel graph shows at max power it uses 16 usgal/hr (0.06153 usgal/hp/hr) which is much more than the Cummins & much much more than the Cat So now it seems these spruikers are even worse than I suspected, they really are using chuckster gals!!! So using their own figures at 315HP which is max it uses 19.38 usgal/hr!!! so their 11 gal/hr at max was is & until there's some huge technology breakthrough will remain just marketing BS for magazine dreamers like you & Krause. > It's too funny that she rants about the money I've lost because I bought a > FICHT in 1999. I'll have been running the engine for six years this spring. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > do not do fuel flow testing on diesels. It is such an amazingly simple test > to run that I can't imagine why they would not run the test? I sorta agree but they DON'T!!! because they can't use a fuel flow meter & if the tank is anything but almost dry then their BS article won't be impressive enough so the advertising might suffer:-). Happy Hols to you to!!. K > Happy Holidays. > [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >>Thus, the engine under whatever standard conditions are for it burns 11 >>gph at a high cruise rpm. >>> Diesel engine manufacturers know and publish very accurate fuel >>> consumption data. Competition keeps them honest. [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > Thus, the engine under whatever standard conditions are for it burns 11 > gph at a high cruise rpm. See this is where you lying idiots confirm your total lack of actual boating experience. Now it seems you can't even read!!! the link you proffer is for a 248-260HP engine NOT a 315 HP engine!!! You really are the most stupid lying uneducated & uneducatable person I've ever come across Krause:-) Even a small drop in revs is a huge drop in power & so now you are saying that this engine burns 11 usgal/hr at "cruise". This confirms the magazine dreamer claims are & always were just marketing BS!!! The claim was 6-7 gal/hr at 22 cruise & only 11 gal/hr at a 40 mph max. Max means no more, flat out, WOT, that's it. So again still no claims from Yanmar on the subject engine because they know they wouldn't get away with it:-) Just as you & your simpleton mates haven't here in this thread. K >Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >From: "K. Smith" ksmith1@msn.com >Just accepted what the seller told them & of course given that a big >part of the marketing is super low fuel consumption ......... The boat was privately owned and the owner apparently had no problems with the numbers. And like I said. I looked at a 26' Shamrock with a 300 Cummins in it and the owner said he got 7 gph at 26 kts as I recall. And, instead of just calling this all a big boating magazine & manufacture conspiracy, prove them wrong with some real world fuel flow data? Capt. Bill >>Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>From: "K. Smith" ksmith1@msn.com [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Capt. Bill She can't. >>Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>From: "K. Smith" ksmith1@msn.com [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The boat was privately owned and the owner apparently had no problems with the > numbers. How would the owner know?? save you properly test how would any owner know how much fuel per hour their diesel is using at "cruise". The owners write mad testimonials about this stuff all the time doesn't make it true, just confirms they were silly enough to fall for it in the first place, so ............. > And like I said. I looked at a 26' Shamrock with a 300 Cummins in it and the > owner said he got 7 gph at 26 kts as I recall. Yeah yeah I went to school with a girl who had an uncle that knew a bloke who lived down the road from the son of ............. Gee a "capt." no less should be able to better than this:-) Nothing but nothing, beats reviewable actual test methodology used & repeatable outcome. So NOYB had a patient who claimed 18 on 13 gals/hr which is nearly 20% more than your claim of 11 at 40 mph:-) NOYB may have (oops sorry) "have had" bad teeth:-) but I bet he's a little bit closer to the mark than your seller spruiked magazine BS. His claim is around 230HP which is about right for continuous running of this engine. Probably got his teeth fixed because he smiles all the time now:-) > And, instead of just calling this all a big boating magazine & manufacture > conspiracy, prove them wrong with some real world fuel flow data? I don't have to prove anything I'm not the one making totally over the top claims that if true would mean diesel engines as we know them have suddenly made a quantum leap in fuel economy & I suppose emissions output???? wow what a relief!!! Thanks for telling us "capt." Here are some links which should "prove" even to a magazine dreamer like you capt. just how ridiculous the claims are, I've chosen some that are in the HP ranges we're discussing but feel free to come back with anything remotely like 315HP on 11usgal/hr, diesel or petrol I'm fair if nothing else:-) So let's be absolutely clear here our base line is your claim of 315HP = 11 usgal/hr (0.034 usgal/hp/hr) & the equally absurd 30 mph cruise on 6-7 usgal/hr that's a 28ft cabin boat cruising at 30 mph on 105 - 120HP!!!! Are you so inexperienced that this seems even remotely right to you???? http://www.gce.cummins.com/mce/mce_4.2/html/curves_4.2.htm 320HP = 18-19 usgal/hr (0.057usgal/hp/hr)!!! But pick any you like capt. similar size engine etc. Gee what slackers those world leading Cummins people must be??? it seems they burn 18-19 usgals/hr when your bloke is only burning 11 for 315HP!!! that's just under 40% more fuel efficient HP for HP wow!!!!!!! http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=53580&x=7 355HP =18 usgal/hr (0.050 usgal/hp/hr) But again pick some others & remember these Cats are now proper slow diesels, fuel use wise about as good as it gets in our pleasure boat world. http://www.perkins-sabre.com/PR/Engines/M300Ti/Performance.cfm 275HP = 15.3 usgal/hr (0.055 usgal/hp/hr) Notice a pattern at all capt.??? it seems your bloke's claim is not just a marketing fudge; it's well out of order!!!! Damn this is of chuckster proportions 0.03 vs 0.05 gal/hp/hr:-) Believe what you like capt. no real harm done I guess, the closest you'll get is like Krause; your magazine articles & dreams. K > Capt. Bill Today's laugh: > I don't have to prove anything I'm not the one making totally over > the top claims >Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >From: "K. Smith" ksmith1@msn.com >>>Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>>From: "K. Smith" ksmith1@msn.com [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > How would the owner know?? Your kidding, right? > save you properly test how would any owner >know how much fuel per hour their diesel is using at "cruise". The >owners write mad testimonials about this stuff all the time doesn't make >it true, just confirms they were silly enough to fall for it in the >first place, so ............. >> And like I said. I looked at a 26' Shamrock with a 300 Cummins in it and >the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >"capt." no less should be able to better than this:-) Nothing but >nothing, beats reviewable actual test methodology used & repeatable outcome. So, show us some that proves you right. > So NOYB had a patient who claimed 18 on 13 gals/hr which is nearly 20% > more than your claim of 11 at 40 mph:-) NOYB may have (oops sorry) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I don't have to prove anything And your doing a fine jod of it. >I'm not the one making totally over the >top claims that if true would mean diesel engines as we know them have [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >120HP!!!! Are you so inexperienced that this seems even remotely right >to you???? It's not MY claim you dolt! It's interesting that you feel the need to take this discussion to a personal level. >http://www.gce.cummins.com/mce/mce_4.2/html/curves_4.2.htm > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >capt. no real harm done I guess, the closest you'll get is like Krause; >your magazine articles & dreams. Interesting that all manufactures are liars till what they claim seems to back you up. Capt. Bill >> Notice a pattern at all capt.??? it seems your bloke's claim is not >>just a marketing fudge; it's well out of order!!!! Damn this is of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Capt. Bill Ms. Smith has no boating credentials of any sort. >>Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>From: "K. Smith" ksmith1@msn.com [quoted text clipped - 101 lines] > > Capt. Bill So you admit they do back me up then???? which of course they do. I said the magazines were so inexperienced they thought they could publish clearly wrong figures & I pointed out that Yanmar themselves specifically DON'T publish any claims related to that motor, indeed the sellers & magazines depend upon the public not getting any proper information. The Cummins, Cat & Perkins references just give the numbers which confirm it takes about 18-20 usgals/hr to make 315HP so the claims no matter who actually made them are false & grossly so. Again lest there be any chance you still don't get it, a 28ft cabin boat doing 40 mph on 11 usgal/hr is just marketing BS & anyone who wears it is confirmed as not having much boating experience, the magazines, you & the NG non boating idiots brigade wore it. K >Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >From: "K. Smith" ksmith1@msn.com >I don't have to prove anything http://www.algroversmarine.com/dieselmenupage1.htm "32’ Hatteras Express, Gas to Diesel Conversion" "1983 Hatteras 32 Sportfish had her old Mercruiser 454's removed and Grover's Team installed new Yanmar 315's. The Merc's produced an 18 knots cruise burning 40gal/hr. She now cruises 25-26 knots burning just 18 gal/hr, top @ 31 kt" "34’ Atlantic, Gas to Diesel Conversion" "1992 Atlantic 34, SHANGRI-LA, had the old Crusader 454's removed and Grover's Team installed 2003 Yanmar 315's to achieve cruise speed of 26.5 kt @ 3400 rpm, top speed 32kt. Cruise consumption is 18 gal/hr." http://www.goboatingamerica.com/brochures04/show.asp?id=20 "Equipped with a Yanmar 315 hp engine she will cruise effortlessly at 14 knots burning less then 7 gallons per hour. The Downeast 35 is safe, seaworthy and spacious." The above by the way, is a 13,000 lb boat. Or almost twice the weight of the True World and draws over a foot and a half more water with a full keel. Capt. Bill >The above by the way, is a 13,000 lb boat. Or almost twice the weight of the >True World and draws over a foot and a half more water with a full keel. > > Capt. Bill Looks like it's your turn in the barrel. Good luck. All those items you cited will be shouted down as nothing more than the result of a deliberate conspiracy between Yanmar, the installer, and Sea Magazine (goboatingamerica.com). Count on it. There are lies, damn lies, wicked collaborations,.....and the opposing party's ever correct personal opinion, of course. :-) >>The above by the way, is a 13,000 lb boat. Or almost twice the weight of the >>True World and draws over a foot and a half more water with a full keel. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > There are lies, damn lies, wicked collaborations,.....and the opposing party's > ever correct personal opinion, of course. :-) No I conceded they might be measuring in chuckster gallons:-) You are a classic example of how magazine writers just print nonsense in the hope of not offending the marketers. K >No I conceded they might be measuring in chuckster gallons:-) You are a >classic example of how magazine writers just print nonsense in the hope >of not offending the marketers. > >K Wrong, again. I don't state fuel consumption figures without identifying the source of the information. Sources can be fuel consumption tests done by the engine mfg during commissioning, observations of fuel flow meters underway, or anecdotal remarks by a marketing representative. Your difficulty seems to center around statements like, "The factory claims the vessel burns 4 gph at 10-knots," (or) "My dockmate repowered with a 300HP Gruntngroaner and he says his fuel consumption has dropped from 22 gph to 17." If the statements are properly identified as third party claims, why should the writer or poster be barbecued alive because your textbook theory would appear to question the numbers? It's one thing to express some skepticism, but another entirely to convert a discussion of fuel efficiency to a personality oriented flame fest. When you watch television news and some reporter says "The local Aussie politician claims he has single-handedly revitalized the economy of SE Australia," and you disagree with the politician's boast, do you damn the reporter for "spreading lies"? >>No I conceded they might be measuring in chuckster gallons:-) You are a >>classic example of how magazine writers just print nonsense in the hope [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Australia," and you disagree with the politician's boast, do you damn the > reporter for "spreading lies"? Television sets are not allowed in her locked ward. >>No I conceded they might be measuring in chuckster gallons:-) You are a >>classic example of how magazine writers just print nonsense in the hope [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > observations of > fuel flow meters underway, or anecdotal remarks by a marketing representative. Hmmmm I do think you're a spammer & marketer by genes Chuck, however I don't think you're a Krause type open liar, so what about the 28 ft boat you gave us the figures on a few years ago??? It wasn't till even owners were saying the marketing claims were bunkum that you seemed to accept they were just marketing nonsense. > Your difficulty seems to center around statements like, "The factory claims the > vessel burns 4 gph at 10-knots," No difficulty with that at all it's clearly a second hand hearsay type comment. (or) "My dockmate repowered with a 300HP > Gruntngroaner and he says his fuel consumption has dropped from 22 gph to > 17." If the statements are properly identified as third party claims, why > should the writer or poster be barbecued alive because your textbook theory > would appear to question the numbers? But that's the point Chuck they don't make it clear it's just a self serving hearsay claim, they say things like; we were cruising at 18kts burning about 6 gals/hr, that's a totally different claim & a deceptive marketing claim, nothing more. > It's one thing to express some skepticism, but another entirely to convert a > discussion of fuel efficiency to a personality oriented flame fest. I have endeavoured several times in this NG to make it clear that the fuel comsumption of modern HO marine diesels is an almost flat line these days, turbo &/or supercharged, intercooled or no, the fuel consumption per HP made is within a reasonable range, a fixed amount. > When you watch television news and some reporter says "The local Aussie > politician claims he has single-handedly revitalized the economy of SE > Australia," and you disagree with the politician's boast, do you damn the > reporter for "spreading lies"? Chuck this is selling things by making false claims. The Yanmar dealers who post testimonials to try to make people believe the false numbers are just engaging in covered false advertising!!! If you then unquestioningly print that, then you are also. I would or at least used to, hope you might be better than that & at the very least smell a rat (other than Krause) & make some further inquiries. If they want to use boats they've refitted with diesel engines for advertising purposes then that's OK but seeing they fitted the engines & presumably tested them on the water etc why not do some actual numbers & then advertise with proper confidence???? They know the owners are dreaming but if it helps sales they just use it, equally when the spruikers tell you nonsense you should at the least be skeptical. You have a slow very fuel efficient diesel boat Chuck as do I & we both know just walking by that a 28ft cabin boat doing 22mph on 6 gal/hr is well out of order much less a 28 ft cabin boat doing 40 mph on 11 gal/hr, claiming a 315HP diesel is at "max". K >Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >From: gould0738@aol.com (Gould 0738) >Looks like it's your turn in the barrel. Good luck. True. I used to think Harry was over the top in his attitude towards her. But now, I'm beginning to get it. I think I'll give it a rest with the female jaxxass. Capt. Bill >>Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>From: "K. Smith" ksmith1@msn.com > >>I don't have to prove anything > > http://www.algroversmarine.com/dieselmenupage1.htm You really are gullible aren't you William??? these people are sellers!!! > "32’ Hatteras Express, Gas to Diesel Conversion" > > "1983 Hatteras 32 Sportfish had her old Mercruiser 454's removed and Grover's > Team installed new Yanmar 315's. The Merc's produced an 18 knots cruise burning > 40gal/hr. She now cruises 25-26 knots burning just 18 gal/hr, top @ 31 kt" Gee a testimonial that's really reliable probably in the same class as the other magazine something to sell rubbish. For any fuel consumption figures to be valid they need to tell exactly how the fuel usage was measured, needless to say the spruikers don't & never do. > "34’ Atlantic, Gas to Diesel Conversion" > > "1992 Atlantic 34, SHANGRI-LA, had the old Crusader 454's removed and Grover's > Team installed 2003 Yanmar 315's to achieve cruise speed of 26.5 kt @ 3400 rpm, > top speed 32kt. Cruise consumption is 18 gal/hr." This is slightly more realistic but again why quote marketing spruik to me, all you need do is find just one "Yanmar" reference that will tell you how much fuel their 315 engine burns at various revs, but I can assure you the starting point at max is going to be about 19-20 usgal/hr. Assuming the fixed pitch props are correct, then at 3400rpm those engines would be making 160-175HP (yes that's right around 1/2 max HP) & given the known consumption of marine diesels it's easy to predict the fuel usage @ 9.9 usgal/hr X 2 = 19-20 gal/hr. Honestly can't you see even from this that the original claim of a 6gal/hr cruise & then an 11gal/hr max is just hopeless BS??? > http://www.goboatingamerica.com/brochures04/show.asp?id=20 > > "Equipped with a Yanmar 315 hp engine she will cruise effortlessly at 14 knots > burning less then 7 gallons per hour. The Downeast 35 is safe, seaworthy and > spacious." > I have always had to contend with this in this NG you actually think if enough people repeat a lie it somehow becomes true, from the OMC dealers not knowing how their own engines idle, to them not knowing then repeating the same lies they were given by OMC as regards Ficht, to this endless nonsense about diesels. It's simple HP for HP you'll save about 20% of the fuel petrol vs diesel. > The above by the way, is a 13,000 lb boat. Or almost twice the weight of the > True World and draws over a foot and a half more water with a full keel. Dealers & other selling spruikers are the a..holes from whence the BS comes!!! From there it's spread over the magazine pages by advertising chasing inexperienced magazine writers, then inexperienced non boaters like you spread it word of mouth, soon people think it's right; so what??, it's not. Things like this are not resolved by a show of hands. The proper diesel manufacturers publish the fuel consumption figures & it's a very competitive business even Yanmar are silent in this because they know any proper fuel graph would stop the deception. "Capt." you are clearly not a boater at all, you just swallow the magazine nonsense then repeat hoping nobody will ever ring the bell, the bell has tolled for thee. K > Capt. Bill > > I have always had to contend with this in this NG you actually think > if enough people repeat a lie Actually, everyone in this newsgroup has had to contend with your totally off-base, b.s., anti-manufacturer, anti-dealer lies for years. > Dealers & other selling spruikers are the a..holes from whence the > BS comes!!! Thabk you, Captain Queeg. >Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >From: "K. Smith" ksmith1@msn.com >Date: 12/21/04 3:13 AM Eastern >"Capt." you are clearly not a boater at all, you just swallow the >magazine nonsense then repeat hoping nobody will ever ring the bell, the >bell has tolled for thee. Great. And I hope that means I will no longer be hearing from you. Capt. Bill >>Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >>From: "K. Smith" ksmith1@msn.com [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Capt. Bill You should kill file me then capt., fore I will always say what I say when people post nonsense, you can hide if you want I care not. I don't use a kill file; don't need it. K >Subject: Re: albin 28 flush deck >From: "K. Smith" ksmith1@msn.com >you can hide if you want ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Capt. Bill |
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