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Boat Forum / Building / August 2005plumbing in heads and seacocks
Hi all, got a little question: I'm fitting a toilet into my boat and I am finding places to fit the inlet and outlet seacocks difficult. The best position is with the outlet below the inlet and about 18 inches apart, but should the outlet be above the inlet to help prevent sucking back in what you have pumped out? The fitting diagram shows that but there is no mention of it. Is there a normal spacing apart of these seacocks? Help really appreceated; Pete > Hi all, got a little question: I'm fitting a toilet into my boat and I > am finding places to fit the inlet and outlet seacocks difficult. > The best position is with the outlet below the inlet and about 18 > inches apart, but should the outlet be above the inlet to help prevent > sucking back in what you have pumped out? The fitting diagram shows > that but there is no mention of it. 18" is a bit close...and yes, the inlet seacock should be a bit higher than the discharge seacock. But it's not on a lot of production boats...and as long as the discharge is aft of the inlet, it shouldn't give you any problems...'cuz you shouldn't be flushing directly overboard when you're anchored at all. That's illegal in ALL U.S. inland and coastal waters. You must be in open sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on the whole US coastline to flush directly overboard or dump a tank. And they're also starting to get very sticky about where you can flush directly overboard in the UK, Europe and "down under" too. So maybe we should talking about where to put the tank and how it plumb it instead of worrying about the relative locations of the thru-hulls.  SignaturePeggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://www.seaworthy.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=40&cat=6&page=1 http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail.tpl?fno=400&group=327 >> Hi all, got a little question: I'm fitting a toilet into my boat and I >> am finding places to fit the inlet and outlet seacocks difficult. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >So maybe we should talking about where to put the tank and how it plumb >it instead of worrying about the relative locations of the thru-hulls. Thanks, I am going to put in a holding tank anyway, but for the moment where I sail I don't need to, and I want to be able to pump out the odd bit of biologically degradeable waste when I can without carrying the stuff around with me. Pete I'm not sure of the "proper" spacing (more is better), but the nasty stuff often floats, so vertical spacing doesn't necessarily help. 18" sounds like very little. Why can't the inlet be taken from a much greater distance? Will the inlet be submerged on both tacks? Roger derbyrm@NOSPAMearthlinkNOSPAM.net http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm > Hi all, got a little question: I'm fitting a toilet into my boat and I > am finding places to fit the inlet and outlet seacocks difficult. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Is there a normal spacing apart of these seacocks? The problem of taking the inlet seacock further away is that the seacocks must be turned off after use of the toilet, so they have to be within the heads, which is small. I don't want any tubing between the skin fitting and the seacock, and no, if the boat is very heeled on starboard tack one needs to squeeze ones cheeks together or ask the skipper to tack! Or better still, avoid the eight pints of lager and a curry the night before! Pete >I'm not sure of the "proper" spacing (more is better), but the nasty stuff >often floats, so vertical spacing doesn't necessarily help. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> >> Is there a normal spacing apart of these seacocks? > The problem of taking the inlet seacock further away is that the > seacocks must be turned off after use of the toilet, so they have to > be within the heads, which is small. I don't want any tubing between > the skin fitting and the seacock... Don't forget that unless the toilet will be above the waterline (highly unlikely on a sailboat), you'll need vented loops in both the intake and discharge lines...and space in the discharge line to add a y-valve when you add the tank. What size is the boat, Pete? And which toilet (make/model) do you plan to install? > Pete > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >>> >>>Is there a normal spacing apart of these seacocks? SignaturePeggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://www.seaworthy.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=40&cat=6&page=1 http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail.tpl?fno=400&group=327 Hi Peggie, I'm building a van de stadt 34, and I'm putting in a Jabsco manual toilet. As regards the waterline stuff, the bowl is about 2 inches above and I am putting in the vented loops, I've just about got enough room for a diverter valve to send the nasty stuff into the tank when its there. I sail in the atlantic from French/Uk waters and don't need a tank. in the med we need tanks, but soon the legislation will come for all. Personally I think its fine in the med, in port and non tidal seas or lakes, but I don't beleive that yachtsmen contribute greatly to pollution of the seas, one needs to look inland for the culprits. Most yachtsmen I have come across over 30 odd years of sailing are pretty responsible people, but thats another argument I suppose. cheers, Pete >> The problem of taking the inlet seacock further away is that the >> seacocks must be turned off after use of the toilet, so they have to [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >>>> >>>>Is there a normal spacing apart of these seacocks? > Hi Peggie, > I'm building a van de stadt 34... Bigger than I thought...I was envisioning something 24-26'. > and I'm putting in a Jabsco manual > toilet. You might want to consider something a bit more durable and reliable. For your use and that boat, I'd take a hard look at the Blake Lavac. Alternatively, the Raritan PH II. Either with give you FAR more trouble-free service than a Jabsco. > As regards the waterline stuff, the bowl is about 2 inches > above and I am putting in the vented loops... If you stick with a piston/cylinder toilet, remember that the INTAKE vented loop has to go between the pump and the bowl--to replace the short piece of hose the toilet mfr used to connect 'em. If you put it between the thru-hull and the pump, the toilet will have a hard time priming. Back to your thru-hulls for a minute...where will your head sink drain? Will it be on the same side of the keel as the toilet? If so, have you thought of using the same thru-hull for both the sink and the toilet intake? They're the same size...many builders tee the head intake into the head sink drain to eliminate a thru-hull. And, it has the added advantage of providing a source of clean fresh water to rinse the sea water out of the system so it can't stagnate and stink while the boat sits. > I've just about got enough > room for a diverter valve to send the nasty stuff into the tank when > its there. I sail in the atlantic from French/Uk waters and don't need > a tank. I gathered from your reference to lagers and curry that you were most likely in the UK. Y'all are apparently as addicted to curry as we are to cheeseburgers. :) > in the med we need tanks, but soon the legislation will come > for all. Yep...already in the draft stage... > Personally I think its fine in the med, in port and non tidal seas or > lakes, but I don't beleive that yachtsmen contribute greatly to > pollution of the seas, one needs to look inland for the culprits. Most > yachtsmen I have come across over 30 odd years of sailing are pretty > responsible people, but thats another argument I suppose. You're "preaching to the choir"...I'm on your side. I don't make the rules, I'm just the messenger. SignaturePeggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://www.seaworthy.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=40&cat=6&page=1 http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail.tpl?fno=400&group=327 >> Hi Peggie, >> I'm building a van de stadt 34... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Alternatively, the Raritan PH II. Either with give you FAR more >trouble-free service than a Jabsco. Too late, already got the jabsco, went for it because the Blake (had on in my old boat) was so far out of my buget it must be made of platinum. Maybe they are cheaper in the US. >> As regards the waterline stuff, the bowl is about 2 inches >> above and I am putting in the vented loops... [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >advantage of providing a source of clean fresh water to rinse the sea >water out of the system so it can't stagnate and stink while the boat sits. Thats a very good idea that I will certainly use. Hate the thought of boring holes in my nice new hull. Thanks >> I've just about got enough >> room for a diverter valve to send the nasty stuff into the tank when [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >likely in the UK. Y'all are apparently as addicted to curry as we are to >cheeseburgers. :) A Brit living in France, and I miss my curry > > in the med we need tanks, but soon the legislation will come >> for all. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >You're "preaching to the choir"...I'm on your side. I don't make the >rules, I'm just the messenger. Thanks for the help Pete > Too late, already got the jabsco, went for it because the Blake (had > on in my old boat) was so far out of my buget it must be made of > platinum. Maybe they are cheaper in the US. You could take it back...'cuz you're gonna find that going from a Blake to a Jabsco is like going from a Mercedes to a Yugo! There ARE choices in between that are affordable. The Lavac is made by Blake, but doesn't cost nearly what the "baby Blake" does..about $350 USD. The Raritan PH II is an excellent toilet, rated the best under $500 for several decades...it's about $250 USD. Give it some thought, anyway... >>Back to your thru-hulls for a minute...where will your head sink drain? >>Will it be on the same side of the keel as the toilet? If so, have you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>advantage of providing a source of clean fresh water to rinse the sea >>water out of the system so it can't stagnate and stink while the boat sits. > Thats a very good idea that I will certainly use. Hate the thought of > boring holes in my nice new hull. Thanks You'll either a need a good plug for the sink or a shutoff valve in the sink drain line ahead of the tee...'cuz unless you close off the sink, the toilet will pull air from it, preventing the pump from priming. As for your toilet discharge thru-hull...leave a space within 6' of the toilet for your eventual inevitable tank. That will allow you to tee the discharge line from it into your existing head discharge thru-hull. I'll be glad to help you spec it out when the time comes. And btw...Tek-Tank is the best UK source for tanks. Btw, if you aren't there already, you might want to drop by the YBW.com forums. They're a pretty good bunch over there. Give another shout if I can help further... SignaturePeggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://www.seaworthy.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=40&cat=6&page=1 http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail.tpl?fno=400&group=327 I'll vouch for the Raritan PH II's. I put two on board four years ago and haven't had a single problem. One PM rebuild on each, probably didn't even need that. Need to lube the wet/dry flush selector every 4-6 months or so, when it starts squeaking, but that's a 5 minute job. Peggie recommends lubing the main cylinder annually or so, but on this toilet, you may as well just rebuild it by the time you take all that apart. One other item.. be sure the outlet is aft of the intake! Went for a Blake Lavac Zenith for the aft head - simple and mechanical and only 10 euros at an NL boat jumble. Bought 2 new seals - cost more than the Zenith. Intake water is sucked from a 6 litre domestic loo cistern which is plumbed directly into FW supply - just like at home (fresh water capacity is 6500 litres, so I guess a little more than the average yacht). Outlet has Y valve to tank - 2800 litres!!! or discharge overboard via syphon loop. Pics etc at http://www.rmstone.screaming.net/internal/internal1.html > Went for a Blake Lavac Zenith ... Intake water is sucked from a 6 litre domestic loo > cistern which is plumbed directly into FW supply - just like at home... Connecting ANY toilet not specifically designed to use pressured water, or a flush water tank, to the potable water supply is very risky...cuz there's nothing to prevent bacteria from the bowl from migrating into the potable water supply. In fact, every mfr of raw water toilets specifically warns against connecting the toilet or any toilet plumbing to the fresh water supply. I know yours is "buffered" by a separate tank, but if bacteria migrate into that tank, they can also migrate into the plumbing. A safe way to do it would be to y-valve the flush water tank fill into a sink drain line...run water down the sink to fill the tank. You accomplish the same thing without exposing the potable water supply to contamination. SignaturePeggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://www.seaworthy.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=40&cat=6&page=1 http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail.tpl?fno=400&group=327 |
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