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Boat Forum / Building / February 2006Fuel Filter
A bit of advice would be appreciated. I use two 5m Zodiacs as part of a SCUBA club but we seem to have continuous problems caused by water in fuel. We currently have sealed metal fuel filters mounted on the transoms of the boats however as these are sealed it is not possible to see what is going on, if water is accumulating etc. I have been thinking about changing these for clear plastic filters (also transon mounted) with valves on the bottom to drain any water/crud. Has anyone had any experience of using these type of filters in this environment and have anything to recomend or steer clear of? Also is the plastic stong enough to withstand rough treatment of both divers and their equipment!? If not it might be necessary to construct some sort of cage around the filter. All advice gratefully recieved Anthony > A bit of advice would be appreciated. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Anthony Start with this link: http://www.parker.com/EAD/displayCatalog.asp?menu_parkerid=46&menu_gid=3&menu_di vid=109&catid=182614&catdesc=MARINE%20FUEL%20FILTRATION&subcatid=9819&viewtype=1 &sMode=Details You need what's called a water separator ... includes a filter, but water collects in the bowl. Remove (unscrew) the bowl now and then to remove the water. Head down to any marine supply shop, they'll set you up. The link the Chuck sent you is a good place to get a top of the line fuel filter/water separator set up. Since you have already thought about the concerns of the plastic bowl set-up, no more needs to be said except that metal blows are available from Racor as you can see. However, there some other alternatives. It sounds like you already have filter separators, the transom mounted spin-ons are usually 10 micron filters/ water separators that function the same as the spin-on Racor replacement elements. ( am referring to the Racor elements that will screw on to your existing heads). The main difference in their functionality is the Racor's ability to be drained via a pet cock. With your existing spin-ons you can just spin them off and dump them in a bucket. If you do this, be sure to put the elements back on ASAP as the rubber gaskets starts to swell quickly once removed making their refitting a problem. But what I would be most concerned about is what is causing the water problem in the first place? Maybe you have an above deck poly tank? if so, then pay some attention the vent. If it can be closed, then close it while not underway. If the tank is constantly being splashed with water then something to deflect the splash, maybe have some vinyl tank covers made or maybe some simple plywood covers like an inverted box that could also be used as a seat?. I think with some "looking into" you will find a better solution than just being able to more conveniently drain a bowl. Anyway, I don't think better(more expensive) filters are necessarily the answer to the problem.  SignatureRon White Boat building web address is www.concentric.net/~knotreel > The link the Chuck sent you is a good place to get a top of the line fuel > filter/water separator set up. Since you have already thought about the [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > the > problem. And if all else fails try a "water removing" diesel additive. I am not sure what it will do to the carbs (if the engine is not injected), but if it gets water through diesel filters then I recon it will pass it straight through a petrol fuel system. If your filter/water separator has a drain plug on it, it should an almost daily routine to draw a sample to see how much water is in the bowl. The only think is that I do not think I would like petrol fumes sloshing about in the bottom of the boat, but I assume its open without sparks & flames, so it is not as bad as in an enclosed boat. SignatureTony Brooks www.TB-Training.co.uk Well...it seems that just because one draws off the water/contaminates from the bottom of the fuel filter bowl, doesn't mean that one should just let it drain into the bilge. Draining it into a cup/bottle (i.e. that won't 'melt' from the diesel fuel). Also, Diesel is significantly different from Petrol/Gasoline...one can pretty much put out a cigarette in diesel while this is not very adviseable with gasoline. Glenn. > > The link the Chuck sent you is a good place to get a top of the line fuel > > filter/water separator set up. Since you have already thought about the [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > in the bottom of the boat, but I assume its open without sparks & > flames, so it is not as bad as in an enclosed boat. > Well...it seems that just because one draws off the water/contaminates > from [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> in the bottom of the boat, but I assume its open without sparks & >> flames, so it is not as bad as in an enclosed boat. It never crossed my mind that anyone would be that stupid - note I said petrol fumes, which people often seem to forget about - still I suppose its what you get with cross posting to several groups. SignatureTony Brooks www.TB-Training.co.uk I still don't understand...why should one have Petrol sloshing around the bottom of one's boat? Do you simply drain water and impurities into your bilge sir? Glenn. > > Well...it seems that just because one draws off the water/contaminates > > from [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > petrol fumes, which people often seem to forget about - still I suppose its > what you get with cross posting to several groups. I know when sampling fuel from aircraft tanks that we just fling the sampled fuel into the air... maybe not the best practice, I know. But in American waters, it's not just bad practice but is illegal to put fuel or oil into the water. A clearly labeled small gas can is the place to dump fuel samples. Don't ask me what to do with it when the sampling gas can is full, nobody's ever come up with a solution for disposing of bad fuel (for consumers) that I know of. At my place, we generally dump it along a fence line during the dry summertime when it's very unlikely that ground water exists to carry it anywhere. I don't imagine that leaving it open to evaporate or burning it off is any better for the environment. May as well kill some weeds. Brian D >I still don't understand...why should one have Petrol sloshing around the > bottom of one's boat? Do you simply drain water and impurities into your [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > its >> what you get with cross posting to several groups. > I know when sampling fuel from aircraft tanks that we just fling the sampled > fuel into the air... maybe not the best practice, I know. But in American [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Brian D Leave it in a can for a week or so to settle. Siphon as much as possible off the top without getting any dirt or water and filter through a genuine chamys leather. (let the chamys dry afterwards then wash according to its care instructions) Add between 2% and 5% anhydrous isopropanol and shake well. Use in an old tech engine e.g. a non fuel injected, non catalyst car. Dont worry about 2 stroke oil at less than 50:1. Even 20:1 doesnt cause any trouble unless the car's tank is totally empty. Next line the filter funnel with a couple of sheets of kitchen roll. Siphon any water out of the bottom of the can without getting any fuel. Put it through the funnel into a glass jar and check its fairly clear with no more than a slight sheen on top. If its got a slight sheen, add one drop of detergent and shake well. If there is more than a trace of fuel, drop a dry tissue on the surface, lift it out and bin it. Now you've got water thats OK to dispose of except in the most ecologically sensitive areas. Any emulsified or rusty muck left in the can is officially hazardous waste and should be taken to an appropriate disposal facility in a solvent resistant sealed container. From my experience of a 25 litre outboard fuel tank that was approx 50% contaminated with muddy river water, you'll have less than 1/4 litre of residue. I cannot suggest that you should let it evaporate outdoors in a shallow tray a long way from any naked flame or ignition source or burn it off in a can half full of dry sand at least 5 meters away from anything flammable as that would probably count as hazardous waste treatment for which you would require a license :-). SignatureIan Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED) ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk [at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & >32K emails --> NUL: 'Stingo' Albacore #1554 - 15' Early 60's, Uffa Fox designed, All varnished hot moulded wooden racing dinghy. >I know when sampling fuel from aircraft tanks that we just fling the >sampled fuel into the air... maybe not the best practice, I know. But in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >full, nobody's ever come up with a solution for disposing of bad fuel (for >consumers) that I know of. We sent all ours back ashore once a week. Not a problem as we also sent all the water that was drained off the bottom of the fuel pods after they had been allowed to stand and settle for 24 hrs. It was all put in a return used fuel pod and sent back for reprocessing. SignatureBrian Ancient Order of Sewer Ants > >I know when sampling fuel from aircraft tanks that we just fling the > >sampled fuel into the air... maybe not the best practice, I know. But in [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > been allowed to stand and settle for 24 hrs. It was all put in a return used > fuel pod and sent back for reprocessing. Brian said "But in American waters, it's not just bad practice but is illegal to put fuel or oil into the water" Where do you think all the fuel goes when military and civilian aircraft are required to "dump fuel" in preparation for landing with weight limits??? >> >I know when sampling fuel from aircraft tanks that we just fling the >> >sampled fuel into the air... maybe not the best practice, I know. But [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > are > required to "dump fuel" in preparation for landing with weight limits??? I'm not the same Brian as "Brian D". But just because aircraft are allowed to dump tons of fuel does not allow us to dump ounces of fuel into the North Sea. SignatureBrian Ancient Order of Sewer Ants > >> >I know when sampling fuel from aircraft tanks that we just fling the > >> >sampled fuel into the air... maybe not the best practice, I know. But [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > to dump tons of fuel does not allow us to dump ounces of fuel into the North > Sea. Agreed. I pointed that out because of the paradox and I thought that concern was a little 'misplaced'. >> > Where do you think all the fuel goes when military and civilian >> > aircraft [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > concern > was a little 'misplaced'. You could see a Sea King doing it on TV last week as they wanted to reduce weight to carry out a rescue on the beach SignatureBrian Ancient Order of Sewer Ants Generally, fuel dumped from aircraft evaporates before reaching the surface. Or was that your point? Butch >>> > Where do you think all the fuel goes when military and civilian >>> > aircraft [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > You could see a Sea King doing it on TV last week as they wanted to reduce > weight to carry out a rescue on the beach > Generally, fuel dumped from aircraft evaporates before reaching the surface. > Or was that your point? Aviation kerosene evaporates before reaching the surface???? Unlikely. > Butch > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >>You could see a Sea King doing it on TV last week as they wanted to reduce >>weight to carry out a rescue on the beach Signature_______________________________________________________________________________ "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 I'm certain you're correct. You seem extremely well informed. Why all the cross posting? Butch >> Generally, fuel dumped from aircraft evaporates before reaching the >> surface. Or was that your point? [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >>>You could see a Sea King doing it on TV last week as they wanted to >>>reduce weight to carry out a rescue on the beach >I still don't understand...why should one have Petrol sloshing around the > bottom of one's boat? Do you simply drain water and impurities into your > bilge sir? > > Glenn. snip > The >> >> only think is that I do not think I would like petrol fumes sloshing [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > its >> what you get with cross posting to several groups. This appeared on Uk.Rec.waterways where I would never have believed anyone would do anything other than drain into a suitable container, but as soon as you let petrol fall through the air you get heavy fumes - note the word FUMES, not petrol - and many people forget about this. Unless you have a completely enclosed draining system (as you are supposed to in garages) you will get fumes falling into the bottom of the boat. Unless you stick your nose into the bilge or under the floor you may well not notice they are still hanging around until - boom As I said, this is the sort of misunderstanding you get with cross positing. If I had the slightest inkling that anyone who would consider draining the said filters into the bilge would have been reading I would not have replied.out of safety concerns. SignatureTony Brooks www.TB-Training.co.uk > A bit of advice would be appreciated. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Anthony In addition to what others have said, topping the fuel tanks at the end of the day will help eliminate condensation inside the tanks. SignatureI don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members. Groucho Marx > In addition to what others have said, topping the fuel tanks at the > end of the day will help eliminate condensation inside the tanks. Oh, no. They'd never do that. They park the boat for weeks with the tanks empty just so it can breathe in all those wet night airs and rot the bottom out of the tank. You're talking about something that takes real work on their parts, landing twice with the fuel dockage, when they're all tired out from sailing all day with a boat now filled with grumpy, drunk passengers who want to go ASHORE...and who will abandon the captain to dock himself at his slip because the fuel dock is SO close to the parking lot!...(c; No wonder they don't stop to fill up and prevent condensation...... >> In addition to what others have said, topping the fuel tanks at the >> end of the day will help eliminate condensation inside the tanks. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > No wonder they don't stop to fill up and prevent condensation...... I have to agree, life is a bitch. :) SignatureI don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members. Groucho Marx The modern plastics on fuel filters are made for commecial mishandeling I have used them in engine rooms and lorrys. if you can see water you can drain it. test the fittings and polycarbonate bowles by smacking them with air bottles etc on dry land if it breakes you have lost the fitting but the alternatives are still available alloy etc. good luck > A bit of advice would be appreciated. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Anthony |
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