 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsBoatsPaddle BoatsSailingCruisingBuildingElectronics Related Topics CarsMotorcyclesMore Topics ... |
Boat Forum / Building / April 2007Spraying Imron-Other painting issues
I am getting ready to spray Imron with a tubrine operated HVLP gun, as opposed to a conversion gun which operates with an air compressor. I know that are some real painting experts in this group so I hope one of them will take the time to give me a little help with the following questions: 1. Will a turbine HVLP gun atomize sufficiently to give me good results? 2. I have some Interlux primer made for their Perfection lineau polyruethane and wonder if I could use that as a primer or do I have to use a two-part epoxy primer? 3. As I do this I need to paint a piece of aluminum that has become pitted. Would West System mixed with their aluminum dust be a good filler for pitting in the aluminum and could I also use the Interlux primer under the Imron. Of course, I would etch the alum prior to application of the primer. Thanks for your help. Joe The linear polyurethane (LPU) paints such as Imron, Awlgrip and Perfection contain cyanide compounds which are VERY TOXIC. These compounds cause brain, liver and lung damage. When the paints are rolled or brushed, the nasty stuff stays on the boat and only solvents get into the air. An organic vapor respirator can deal with that. When the PAINTS are sprayed, an aerosol of paint droplets, containing the nasty cyanide compounds, is in the air. The only breathing apparatus which effectively protects the painter are the 'supplied air' respirators. These start at about $1K. An ordinary respirator won't do it.. DO NOT SPRAY LPU PAINTS WITHOUT ONE. > I am getting ready to spray Imron with a tubrine operated HVLP gun, as > opposed to a conversion gun which operates with an air compressor. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Joe >The linear polyurethane (LPU) paints such as Imron, Awlgrip and Perfection >contain cyanide compounds which are VERY TOXIC. These compounds cause brain, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >are the 'supplied air' respirators. These start at about $1K. An ordinary >respirator won't do it.. DO NOT SPRAY LPU PAINTS WITHOUT ONE. I ask for info on these paints and I get a lecture on safety instead of a little help with my questions. I am aware of their toxicity and I use equipment to protect myself. As an aside I might tell you that countless boat yards and auto body shops in the United States and other first-world countries thousands of gallons of this stuff without "supplied air" respirators. A good fitting mask with the proper cartridge is adequate for my purpose. Tell me, Jim, isn't boating a bit dangerous for someone with your safety concerns. After all, there are all sorts of dangers in going around the water. Additionally, if you want a "supplied-air" respirator you can find plans all over the web to build one for less than $100. You don't have to look for something with where prices "start at 1K." Thanks, though for thinking about the safety of others. Regards, Joe From an Imron activator MSDS Inhalation: May cause nose and throat irritation. May cause nervous system depression, characterized by the following progressive steps: headache, dizziness, nausea, staggering gait, confusion, unconsciousness. Reports have associated repeated and prolonged overexposure to solvents with permanent brain and nervous system damage. If this product contains or is mixed with an isocyanate activator/hardener, the following health effects may apply: Exposure to isocyanates may cause respiratory sensitization. This effect may be permanent. Symptoms include an asthma-like reaction with shortness of breath, wheezing, cough or permanent lung sensitization. This effect may be delayed for several hours after exposure. Repeated overexposure to isocyanates may cause a decrease in lung function, which may be permanent. Individuals with lung or breathing problems or prior reactions to isocyanates must not be exposed to vapors or spray mist of this product. ... Respiratory protection Do not breathe vapors or mists. If this product contains isocyanates or is used with an isocyanate activator/hardener, wear a positive-pressure, supplied-air respirator (NIOSH approved TC-19C) while mixing activator/hardener with paint, during application and until all vapors and spray mist are exhausted. If product does not contain or is not mixed with an isocyanate activator/hardener, a properly fitted air-purifying respirator with organic vapor cartridges (NIOSH TC-23C) and particulate filter (NIOSH TC-84A) may be used. Follow respirator manufacturer's directions for respirator use. Do not permit anyone without protection in the painting area. Individuals with history of lung or breathing problems or prior reaction to isocyanates should not use or be exposed vapor or spray mist if product contains or is mixed with isocyanate activators/hardeners. ... Some of us value our brain cells. > >The linear polyurethane (LPU) paints such as Imron, Awlgrip and Perfection > >contain cyanide compounds which are VERY TOXIC. These compounds cause brain, [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Joe > From an Imron activator MSDS > Inhalation: > May cause nose and throat irritation. May cause nervous system > depression, > Regards, Joe Hi Joe: I thought your safety alert was an EXCELELNT idea. If some person is asking those DIY questions most likely he aint working with a full deck. Personally I think the OP was just trolling and hopping for an opportunity to say somthing nasty. Bob >> From an Imron activator MSDS >> Inhalation: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Bob Well, Bob, your post indicates that you are more than likely operating with diminished deductive capacity. Anyone reading my post and concluding that it was a troll either did not read it or did not understand it. In the case of the former you are clearly the one looking to say something nasty and in the case of the latter your ability to comprehend the written language is clearly diminished, which is suggested by your inability to distinguish between the poster (Joe) and the responder (Jim). Go back and reread my original post and you will see that it was addressed to "some real painting experts in this group." Jim's failure to answer any of the questions sort of indicates to me that he was/is unable to do so and was seeking to (a) diminish the seriousness of my questions or (b) just showing off--not uncommon in these NGs. Regards, Joe > Well, Bob, >your post indicates that you are more than likely operating > with diminished deductive capacity. > Joe- Well, joe, Best of luck on your project. Bob Jim-- I do apologize if I seemed ungrateful for your counsel. I thought you were just some wise a.s. I should have checked things out. I have just read a lot of your posts and realize that you have made many, many valuable contributions to this group. You are absolutely right about the dangers of anything containing isocyanates. I do not have a supplied-air system but I will probably be using an HVLP gun which will reduce the overspray and atomozation. I will be working outside and will be shooting less than one pint. I will use a tight-fitting mask and the correct cartridge--the same one I use with muriatic acid which can really burn your lungs up. If I were younger I would probably not do it without supplied air but at my age I don't have to worry too much about long-term affects. Thanks and sorry if I misunderstood your intent. Joe On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:20:40 -0400, "Jim Conlin" <conlin@comcast.net> wrote: >The linear polyurethane (LPU) paints such as Imron, Awlgrip and Perfection >contain cyanide compounds which are VERY TOXIC. These compounds cause brain, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >are the 'supplied air' respirators. These start at about $1K. An ordinary >respirator won't do it.. DO NOT SPRAY LPU PAINTS WITHOUT ONE. just another 2 Cents - my formulator chemist says the cyanide in the LPU part B (iso-cyanides - spelling??) is well bond up and not that dangerous -- I don't know... Note that these LPU coatings, especially if you thin and spray - often don't match the clear air VOC regulations in many parts of the state. If you use them on a boat, and not on a car or plane, you are very likely breaking the law. No 'harm' intended - I am just becoming knowledgeable in the confusing rats nest of VOC regulations that vary from state to state and often county by county (such as in California). It is not science or technology that control coatings these days, but lawyers. paul oman progressive epoxy polymers inc >Jim-- > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> >> Cyanide is broken down in the body through a series of sulfur dependent pathways. The toxicity is based upon the lack of sufficient sulfur being available under normal conditions resulting in the accumulation of free cyanide in the body. The treatment is to ingest a prescription product called mucomyst. It smells like rotten eggs can't imagine drinking it. So don't bother with a proper mask, pour yourself a big glass of sulfur. Spray a little then sip a little and you will be fine. John > just another 2 Cents - my formulator chemist says the cyanide in the LPU > part B (iso-cyanides - spelling??) is well bond up and not that [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >>>ordinary >>>respirator won't do it.. DO NOT SPRAY LPU PAINTS WITHOUT ONE. > I am getting ready to spray Imron with a tubrine operated HVLP gun, as > opposed to a conversion gun which operates with an air compressor. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > 1. Will a turbine HVLP gun atomize sufficiently to give me good > results? It should (I use one sometimes) but be warned that the turbine will heat the air and you should run the hose through ice water to cool it down. > 2. I have some Interlux primer made for their Perfection lineau > polyruethane and wonder if I could use that as a primer or do I have > to use a two-part epoxy primer? Better check your facts... The only primer Interlux has for their Perfection LPU *IS* a 2 part epoxy primer (Interlux 404). Perhaps you have some of their old line 2100/2101 (also a 2 part). If you do, it will be more than 3 years old... Unfortunately they dropped that from the product line 3 - 4 years ago as it was much easier to sand than is 404. If the cans have been previously opened I wouldn't chance using it. Brian C > 3. As I do this I need to paint a piece of aluminum that has become > pitted. Would West System mixed with their aluminum dust be a good [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Joe >I am getting ready to spray Imron with a tubrine operated HVLP gun, as > opposed to a conversion gun which operates with an air compressor. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Joe As far as your HVLP set up goes, there are good ones and not so good ones. Atomisation depends greatly on the air cap of the spray gun. Generally, more air holes the better. Some have 2 air holes (Yuuuuck!) some have over 20 (IIRC) air holes. Also, you get better atomisation if you thin the paint down. For the record, When I sprayed boats, I frequently thinned paint down to 14.5 seconds measured through a ford cup4 (this is a funnel-like device and you time how long it takes for the amount of paint to flow through. It really takes the guess work out of it). BUT, the viscosity of the paint you use depends on many factors such as the type of paint, the substrate condition, weather blah blah blah. Your best bet is to prep a test piece as you would the actual boat then paint that. See if you like the results. If not, re-prep the test piece and try again. It takes a little bit of effort to get used to new paint and equipment. Or you can "shoot from the hip" and hope for the best. It all depends on what kind of result you are prepared to accept. As for the paints you intend to use, its generally not a good idea to mix and match. If you're doing this for money, then spend the bucks and get a complete system of primer and top coat. If its for your own boat and you don't mind taking a risk, then sure, go ahead, general rule of thumb is that if both primer and paint use the same thinner then there should be no compatibility issues. BUT, you may not get as good adhesion as you ought to. But it may still stick well enough. Don't know about west system and aluminium. Best ask them. Cheers, Arnold |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.