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Boat Forum / Building / May 2007generating your *own* electricity
Thinking that nothing is ever gained or lost in a system, only transferred and typically at a loss, Ive often thought of what sustainability is in a nuts-and-bolts kind of way. Something Ive been thinking of, off and on over the last few years is how much electricity a human being can generate. Using running water as a source is all good, but lets say you were to build a simple machine consisting of maybe some parts of a bicycle including the peddles, gears, chain etc, then instead of the wheel, you could have the alternator out of a car. Or, if tha was too much to peddle, you could use the wheel (or a substitute) as a pulley then another pulley going to the alternator. How many amps can a person generate at 12V? Something like this would be simple, dead cheap, and would provide an excellent backup when all else has failed in the middle of nowhere and your generator/solar/engine/wind power have all died and you need to charge your batteries. Beyond that, I wouldnt feel at all bad about pedalling for a couple of hours a day on a long voyage as opposed to running the engine for a couple of hours. Sort of earning your daily bread, if you like. Thoughts? Shaun Shaun, Brian Allen was the pilot/engine of the manpowered flight across the English channel. It was said that his peak was about 1/2hp (375w) for short bursts. So, yes, you could do it. If you really wanted to. Matt Colie > Thinking that nothing is ever gained or lost in a system, only transferred > and typically at a loss, Ive often thought of what sustainability is in a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Shaun  Signaturetarget of diversity victim of affirmative action refugee from the war on poverty minimized by political correctness Normal people (not those in superb condition) can maintain about 150 watts for 30 minutes. P=IE Steve > Thinking that nothing is ever gained or lost in a system, only transferred > and typically at a loss, Ive often thought of what sustainability is in a [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Shaun Couple of hours a day, at 10 amps? Compared to an engine charging at 30 amps? Free excercise? With an electric motor / generator, you could charge batteries or direct drive, emulate rowing, even use solar power. You could also charge from the prop under sail. A direct pedal drive might work more efficiently, if geared in after the engine drive. A wind generator could also contribute. If a man can row across the ocean, why not pedal / sail? Drag a krill net an hour a day and get plenty of food. Catch rain to drink. Be the first new independant sustainable aquatic mammal life form in millions of years? Let Darwin be your judge. Terry K 300w would be going hard. (One of the worlds top sprint cyclists hits 1100w, Lance Armstrong holds 450w for an hour). As a former bike racer myself, I'd say it would be a real workout, the only problem with this pedal power recharging system, is the borebom, exersice bikes have always been a least favourite amongst cyclist. Look at 200w for an average fit person, then you have only 35% effiency of the alternator, 70W gives about 5 amps. At least it solves the problem of lack of aerobic exersice on a passage. Gary > Thinking that nothing is ever gained or lost in a system, only transferred > and typically at a loss, Ive often thought of what sustainability is in a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Shaun > 300w would be going hard. (One of the worlds top sprint cyclists hits > 1100w, Lance Armstrong holds 450w for an hour). [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Gary You can get closer to 70% efficiency if you go to a permanent magnet alternator rather than an automotive style. But the rest of your numbers are right on. Signature“TAANSTAFL” ____________________________________________________________________________ "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 ____________________________________________________________________________ In the film, "soylent green" actor Edward G. Robinson pedals an exercise bike driving an automotive alternator to charge batteries so we know it's possible in the movies. I heard of someone doing it on an off-the-grid island too. Maybe a folding bike would save space. You must have quite a large boat to be considering something like that. If your craft sails at 5 or 6 knots you can tap off the prop shaft and get it for free unless you need the exercise. Some systems use a larger wheel on the shaft to drive the small pulley on the alternator. Bon Voyage. >Thinking that nothing is ever gained or lost in a system, only transferred >and typically at a loss, Ive often thought of what sustainability is in a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Shaun More just looking at options... My boats only 26 feet, but im dreaming of the day when i win $100million and build the 75 foot catamaran that I've always dreamed of ;-) Having pedal power generation would be just another arrow in the quiver, to go allong side a standalone generator, alternators on the dual engines, twin windmill power generators, solar, and of course electronic motors capable of hybrid modes.... Of course it goes without saying that the boat would have numerous redundancies, like either one, or both twin engines could be used to generate electricity to power the twin electric motors turning the props, but those same props would also have electronic clutches on the electric motors and a second set of drive gears that could be run directly off either one, or both the diesel motors by hydraulics. And that same hydraulic system could be used to run winches, and even the refrigeration system whose compressors could be run hydraulically or electrically. There would also be electric motors capable of driving the hydraulics, giving you numerous redundancies of driving anything on the boat off the batteries by electronics, or if electronics had failed then by hydraulics, or directly off the motors once they were started, and many options for charging the immense battery bank. It goes without saying that said vessel would also have retractable wings, and be capable of flying albeit at sub-sonic speeds. naturally it would also be capable of diving down to a depth of 1000metres below sea level and would also shrink down to the size of a ferrari and sprout wheels so that you could drive it to work and impress all your colleagues. Im still working on the colour scheme, which would be pivotal in impressing said colleagues. Shaun > In the film, "soylent green" actor Edward G. Robinson pedals an > exercise bike driving an automotive alternator to charge batteries so [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >> >>Shaun On May 12, 8:26 am, "Shaun Van Poecke" <shaunvanpoe...@bigpond.com> wrote: > More just looking at options... My boats only 26 feet, but im dreaming of > the day when i win $100million and build the 75 foot catamaran that I've [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > >>the wheel (or a substitute) as a pulley then another pulley going to the > >>alternator. How many amps can a person generate at 12V? I had a friend once that rigged up a bike to an alternator and ran his computer from it. He produced 100 watts and could do it for about an hour or so. He was in the shape that most of us are in. Not mentioned as an alternative is a piece of rope with a propeller on the end dragged behind the boat and fastened to the shaft of a DC generator. The "rope" must be of sufficient size and material to be up to the job and the propeller should be on the end of a 3 to 4 foot metal shaft so as to give it stability. > >>Something like this would be simple, dead cheap, and would provide an > >>excellent backup when all else has failed in the middle of nowhere and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > >>Shaun > Not mentioned as an alternative is a piece of rope with a propeller on > the end dragged behind the boat and fastened to the shaft of a DC > generator. The "rope" must be of sufficient size and material to be > up to the job and the propeller should be on the end of a 3 to 4 foot > metal shaft so as to give it stability. thats absolutely brilliant! did you hook it direct to the shaft, or via a pulley? Thats so simple it almost hurts that i didnt think of it first ;-) Shaun On May 12, 8:50 pm, "Shaun Van Poecke" <shaunvanpoe...@bigpond.com> wrote: > > Not mentioned as an alternative is a piece of rope with a propeller on > > the end dragged behind the boat and fastened to the shaft of a DC [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Shaun The flexible line is connected directly to the shaft and directly to the alternator. It has to be a low speed alternator. There are designs for making an alternator low speed in places like The Mother Earth News and other "back to the earth" publications. They do it for direct drive wind generators. Any non geared wind generator motor should do. The alternator is mounted on the aft rail or thereabouts. I have a surplus 12V DC motor. I use the same motor on the wind generator so there is only one set of spare bearings to carry. >>Not mentioned as an alternative is a piece of rope with a propeller on >>the end dragged behind the boat and fastened to the shaft of a DC [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Shaun Been around for decades. Called (among other things) a tow-behind generator. bob s/v Eolian Seattle Sorry, you are too late. This vessel already exists, Wilbore Hubbard owns it. He built it last week with only a toothpick and a swiss army knife for tools. It would be the perfect boat, if it wasn't for the color scheme he picked. On May 12, 6:26 am, "Shaun Van Poecke" <shaunvanpoe...@bigpond.com> wrote: > More just looking at options... My boats only 26 feet, but im dreaming of > the day when i win $100million and build the 75 foot catamaran that I've [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > >>Shaun Back in the fifties, In high school physics, we did an experiment to find out how much power teen agers could generate. Our task was running up stairs. We found that kids in really athletic shape could put out close to one HP for one flight. The average was less than half that value. One HP is 746 watts with out losses. We are a pretty puny species! No wonder we got animals to do the hard work followed by wind, water and finally steam and electricity. Dave > Thinking that nothing is ever gained or lost in a system, only transferred > and typically at a loss, Ive often thought of what sustainability is in a [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Shaun On Sat, 12 May 2007 10:27:26 -0400, "Dave W" <woodwind@suscom-maine.net> wrote stuff and I replied: ....and then most of the animals are millions of years old! <G> >is 746 watts with out losses. We are a pretty puny species! No wonder we >got animals to do the hard work followed by wind, water and finally steam >and electricity. On May 11, 8:36 am, "Shaun Van Poecke" <shaunvanpoe...@bigpond.com> wrote: > Thinking that nothing is ever gained or lost in a system, only transferred > and typically at a loss, Ive often thought of what sustainability is in a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Shaun Car alternators spin pretty fast compared to what you would probably do running it with a bike. Anyone know if there is a speed (slow) that it will not produce enough to spark up the diode triode? Anyway, you may have to consider/ponder a different lower output generator. Just guessing here, maybe someone else knows. What I've read says car type alternators need a minimum of 1000 rpm to produce usable voltage. Could you put magnets directly on the wheel and pickup coils around it? Kinda like a big old synchronous motor? >> Shaun > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > may have to consider/ponder a different lower output generator. Just > guessing here, maybe someone else knows. Someone said the starters from outboard engines can be used backwards as generators. >What I've read says car type alternators need a minimum of 1000 rpm to >produce usable voltage. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> may have to consider/ponder a different lower output generator. Just >> guessing here, maybe someone else knows. > Thinking that nothing is ever gained or lost in a system, only transferred > and typically at a loss, Ive often thought of what sustainability is in a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Thoughts? Take a look at http://www.los-gatos.ca.us/davidbu/pedgen.html -- pedal-powered DC generator, hooked up to an inverter to run lights, TV, laptop, etc. The inventor has done a great deal of work on output, efficiency, etc., and has a worksheet for computing capacity and load compared to solar cells, etc. |
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