Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion GroupsBoatsPaddle BoatsSailingCruisingBuildingElectronics
Related Topics
CarsMotorcyclesMore Topics ...

Boat Forum / Building / December 2007



Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Why a laminated tiller handle?

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Toller - 07 Sep 2007 22:02 GMT
The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be asking a
few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.

The tiller handle is laminated wood, in a very slight S curve.  It has
delaminated; and while I am now gluing it up with polyurethane glue, I think
it will have to be replaced in the long run.
It doesn't go over or under anything, so I don't see that the S curve is for
anything but maybe style.  Can I make the new one straight?  Is there
anycompelling reason it has to be laminated?  I have a nice piece of very
old white oak I can use to cut a new one; will a solid white oak tiller
handle be inappropriate for any reason?  Thanks.  (I have a bandsaw, so
duplicating the curve would be easy enough, but I think it will weaken the
handle, unless there is a good reason for the curve.)
Bill - 07 Sep 2007 22:16 GMT
> The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be asking a
> few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> duplicating the curve would be easy enough, but I think it will weaken the
> handle, unless there is a good reason for the curve.)

I'm not sure about the curve but making it a laminate will allow you
to vary the grain pattern so that if and when it begins to warp it
will pull against itself and stay relatively straighter.  You would
want to keep the grain going long ways but because it is still in a
circular pattern you flip one board over as compared to the previous.
I am sorry about the bad description on this.  Someone else may have a
better one or even some wort of diagram to show you.
Toller - 07 Sep 2007 22:22 GMT
>> The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be asking
>> a
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> I am sorry about the bad description on this.  Someone else may have a
> better one or even some wort of diagram to show you.

White oak is pretty stable, and this piece is about 40 years old.  I hope it
will not warp, at least not much.
But it wouldn't be all that much work to cut it up and glue it back
together, reversing the pieces, if that will give better results.
Hopefully it won't delaminate like the current one.
marierdj@nb.sympatico.ca - 07 Sep 2007 22:30 GMT
Depending on the cockpit's configuration a curve tiller is preferred.
Laminated teller with two part epoxy is better for strength and allow for
pattern variation like one or two layers of white hard wood with one layer
of dark wood.  On my previous boat I made a spare tiller with one piece
solid ash and had no problem.
When you make a tiller you have to make sure that the holes are drilled
perpendicular and in line with the metal holding part mounted on the rudder.
When push comes to shove one of two  fibreglass laminated hockey stick will
get you out of trouble.  This is more true on smaller sailboat.   The Potter
15 is a nicely configured boat.  If you have the time and facility I would
go for laminated ash and holly wood ( or their equivalent) tiller with two
parts epoxy.  You can use the old tiller as a template.

> The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be asking a
> few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> duplicating the curve would be easy enough, but I think it will weaken the
> handle, unless there is a good reason for the curve.)
salty@dog.com - 07 Sep 2007 22:52 GMT
>The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be asking a
>few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>duplicating the curve would be easy enough, but I think it will weaken the
>handle, unless there is a good reason for the curve.)

Wood has grain. Cutting a curved shape out of an oak timber will make a
comparitively weak structure. Laminating not only makes all the grain going the
right direction, but laminating itself increases strength and resistance to
warping and twisting. The "S" shape is mostly for comfort. In some cases it also
creates needed clearance. You can buy premade tillers for many boat models, and
usually there is one that is pretty close, even if there isn't an exact
replacement. You can usually find at least a small collection at any West marine
store. Bring yours along and try to match it up. get the model number and then
find it elswhere on the internet for a LOT less money.

My boat has a very unusual, all wood wishbone shape. After contacting two firms
that advertise they can duplicate ANY tiller, I was left with the task of doing
it myself. They didn't want to do it because their tooling and jigs were not
designed for this particular setup.  It's unusual enough that I consider it an
important and distinctive design element of the boat that needs to be
maintained. I bought a VERY nice piece of teak 5/4 lumber and sawed it into the
needed 5/16" strips on my table saw. Glued it up on a jig I made by mounting
dowels and blocks of wood on a wide board. Used West System Epoxy filled with
brown fiber filler and SLOW hardner. Used about 35 clamps. The final result was
a lot nicer than the original which was similar but not made with such beautiful
wood, or care. For the shallow bends of a tiller, steam is not needed or even
desirable.
Lew Hodgett - 08 Sep 2007 00:42 GMT
> The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be asking a
> few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> It doesn't go over or under anything, so I don't see that the S curve is for
> anything but maybe style.

> Can I make the new one straight?

Yes, but it will look like ugly on an ape, and may not provide needed
clearances.

> Is there
> anycompelling reason it has to be laminated?

Yes.

Strength, appearance and resistance to warping.

> I have a nice piece of very
> old white oak I can use to cut a new one; will a solid white oak tiller
> handle be inappropriate for any reason?

Save that piece of white oak.

Get some Hondourous Mahogany and some Ash, and some epoxy.

Rip 1/4" thick strips.

Build a laminating jig.

Have fun.

Lew
dadiOH - 08 Sep 2007 12:46 GMT
> The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be
> asking a few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
>
> The tiller handle is laminated wood, in a very slight S curve.  It
> has delaminated; and while I am now gluing it up with polyurethane
> glue,

Not a good choice.
______________

> It doesn't go over or under anything, so I don't see that the S
> curve is for anything but maybe style.

A curve brings the end where your hand goes higher relative to the
rudder stock.  Or lower, depending.
______________

> Can I make the new one straight?

Yes
_______________

> Is there any compelling reason it has to be laminated?

Compelling, no.
_________________

> I have a nice piece of very old white oak I can use to cut a new
one;
> will a solid white oak tiller handle be inappropriate for any
> reason?

It will work fine.  It will be rather heavy though.  Mine is oak, made
of several pieces.  The short & solid hand end is attached to two thin
pieces that are separated at intervals by three tapered blocks between
them.  Making it in that manner decreased weight and saved a lot of
the shaping that would have been needed had I used a solid piece.
________________

(I have a bandsaw, so duplicating the curve would
> be easy enough, but I think it will weaken the handle,

It would.

Signature

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Frogwatch - 08 Sep 2007 19:56 GMT
> > The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be
> > asking a few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it athttp://mysite.verizon.net/xico

When it totally delaminates and some layers rot, cut out the rotten
layers.  Use your table saw to cut thin strips to replace them with.
Glue it up with epoxy and it is as good as new.  Worked for me.
brian c - 09 Sep 2007 10:58 GMT
when I needed a new tiller someone suggested using a pick axe handle. well
it has worked fine with pickaxe for about three years now.just thought I`d
let you all know
Bri

>> The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be
>> asking a few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
> It would.
Brian Whatcott - 09 Sep 2007 19:05 GMT
>when I needed a new tiller someone suggested using a pick axe handle. well
>it has worked fine with pickaxe for about three years now.just thought I`d
>let you all know
>Bri

When my fork and pin tiller gave up the ghost, I laminated in new
hardwood materials to make the tiller a yoke and pin.
I.e. a hole for the rudder post surrounded completely by wood.

A pick axe handle is usually specified to use the toughest wood
available and would be a very suitable basis, I reckon.

Thanks

Brian W
Richard Casady - 10 Sep 2007 16:34 GMT
>A pick axe handle is usually specified to use the toughest wood
>available and would be a very suitable basis, I reckon.

Wonder what they cost?  Ash baseball bats cost about a hundred bucks.

Casady
Brian Whatcott - 10 Sep 2007 17:27 GMT
>>A pick axe handle is usually specified to use the toughest wood
>>available and would be a very suitable basis, I reckon.
>
>Wonder what they cost?  Ash baseball bats cost about a hundred bucks.
>
>Casady

Under $20 for hickory if I recall....

Brian W
Richard Casady - 05 Dec 2007 14:41 GMT
>>>A pick axe handle is usually specified to use the toughest wood
>>>available and would be a very suitable basis, I reckon.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Brian W

The figure I gave is for a regular Louisville Slugger major league
professional bat. I couldn't believe it. Now the ash looks to be going
the way of the chestnut and elm. I am sure hickory would make an
acceptable bat.

Casady
Richard Casady - 06 Dec 2007 22:15 GMT
>A pick axe handle is usually specified to use the toughest wood
>>>>available

Maybe so, but pick handle is not a particularly demanding application.
What needs a handle tougher than any wood is a sledge hammer used to
drive steel wood splitting wedges. One good mishit and any wood handle
will break. I replaced it with a fiberglass handle when I broke the
wooden one.

Casady
brian c - 10 Sep 2007 19:15 GMT
they cost about £5 in the UK
Bri

>>A pick axe handle is usually specified to use the toughest wood
>>available and would be a very suitable basis, I reckon.
>
> Wonder what they cost?  Ash baseball bats cost about a hundred bucks.
>
> Casady
sherwindu - 09 Sep 2007 07:04 GMT
Toller,

Over the past 35 years, I have had to reglue my tiller twice.  I have since
given it
several coats of varnish and keep a cover on it when not sailing.  I believe the

reason for the 'S' shape is to keep the tiller out of the way of your legs when
you are
standing close to the rudder post.  Solid wood will warp in marine environment,
as
I discovered recently when I replaced my laminated benches with solid wood.

                                    Sherwin D.

> The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be asking a
> few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> duplicating the curve would be easy enough, but I think it will weaken the
> handle, unless there is a good reason for the curve.)
salty@dog.com - 09 Sep 2007 13:16 GMT
>The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be asking a
>few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>duplicating the curve would be easy enough, but I think it will weaken the
>handle, unless there is a good reason for the curve.)

<http://pyacht.iserver.net/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/h-h_and_l_
tillers.htm?E+scstore+6666
>
Dave W - 09 Sep 2007 14:31 GMT
I guess the reason most tillers are shapely is to keep the tiller from
looking like an ugly stick.  Ash is often used for tillers more than oak.
salty@dog.com - 10 Sep 2007 19:42 GMT
>The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be asking a
>few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>duplicating the curve would be easy enough, but I think it will weaken the
>handle, unless there is a good reason for the curve.)

West Wight sells a replacement tiller for $55. That seems extremely
reasonable.

http://www.westwightpotter.com/content/MiniShopProduct.phtml?0/0/199

They have lots of other parts as well.
Lew Hodgett - 10 Sep 2007 23:07 GMT
> West Wight sells a replacement tiller for $55. That seems extremely
> reasonable.
>
> http://www.westwightpotter.com/content/MiniShopProduct.phtml?0/0/199

You can't even think about making a replacement for that price.

Lew
salty@dog.com - 10 Sep 2007 23:52 GMT
>> West Wight sells a replacement tiller for $55. That seems extremely
>> reasonable.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Lew

AMEN!
Ron Magen - 11 Sep 2007 14:28 GMT
Hey people,

Didn't we just go over this subject a couple of weeks ago?? Or was that
another 'forum' ??

Anyhow, if you don't like the 'stock' Potter tiller, there are at least 4
other sellers out there, with prices ranging from about $50 to about $100.

I was thinking of making one for the P15 I'm refurbishing. The present
'tiller' looks like a length of '2x4' that was cut to an 'approximate shape'
& painted brown !! While it worked for the past owner, it no-way suite my
'sensibilities'. I was thinking of making one myself {not really hard, just
time consuming}, but the afore mentioned prices are making me re-think THIS
part of the project.

Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop

<salty@dog.com> wrote
"Lew Hodgett" <lewhodgett@earthlink.net>  wrote:

> >> West Wight sells a replacement tiller for $55. That seems extremely
> >> reasonable.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> AMEN!
justwaitafrekinminute@gmail.com - 12 Sep 2007 15:23 GMT
> The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be asking a
> few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> duplicating the curve would be easy enough, but I think it will weaken the
> handle, unless there is a good reason for the curve.)

With respect to the other posters, and I have not read all the posts.
I can relate my experience. I laminated 5 pieces of 6mm Occoume with 4
0z. tight weave fiberglass and Epoxy in between layers. I am sure it
is still strong as hell, but it did have more flex than I would have
liked. The guy I made it for was thrilled though. Carry on, sorry if
this has already been noted.
Richard Casady - 06 Dec 2007 01:42 GMT
>The rudder/tiller on my Potter 15 is disintigrating, so I will be asking a
>few questions on rebuilding it in the next few weeks.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>duplicating the curve would be easy enough, but I think it will weaken the
>handle, unless there is a good reason for the curve.)

If you really need the curves, perhaps you could steam bend the piece
of oak.

Casady
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.