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Boat Forum / Building / January 2008New teak decks over old teak decks
I provide teak decking for the DIY folks and have received several inquiries regarding laying thin (1/4") teak strips over an existing failed teak deck. Traditionally laid teak decks primarily fail because caulking separates or the bungs loosen and water corrodes the fasteners that then enters the subdeck. In theory.... securing all loose decking, filling voids and then rough sanding the existing teak deck should provide a sound subdeck to adhere the new 1/4" decking to. Does anyone in this forum have experience regarding adhering new teak over an existing teak deck ? Especially interested if someone has done this 10 years ago. .......Ken > I provide teak decking for the DIY folks and have received several inquiries > regarding laying thin (1/4") teak strips over an existing failed teak deck. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > .......Ken I fail to see how covering existing teak decks, with all the inherent problems, could possibly fix anything. What in the world would you do if you had a problem with the old fasteners? You can't hide a problem. >> I provide teak decking for the DIY folks and have received several >> inquiries regarding laying thin (1/4") teak strips over an existing [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > You can't hide a problem. What is the problem of the old fasteners ? As long as loose and obviously corroded fasteners are removed and later covered in polyurethane adhesive they pose no risk due to no continued moisture contact. ...Ken >> I provide teak decking for the DIY folks and have received several inquiries >> regarding laying thin (1/4") teak strips over an existing failed teak deck. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >What in the world would you do if you had a problem with the old fasteners? Air powered chisel, followed by a grinder? >You can't hide a problem. You heard the one about the fire on the USS Oriskany? Someone accidently ignited an air dropped illumination flare. Tossed it into the locker full of flares, slammed the lid, and hid the problem for about ten seconds. Casady >I provide teak decking for the DIY folks and have received several inquiries >regarding laying thin (1/4") teak strips over an existing failed teak deck. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >an existing teak deck ? Especially interested if someone has done this 10 >years ago. Two issues come to mind: Teak decks are pretty heavy, and adding more weight that high up in the boat is probably not a great idea. By the time a teak deck needs replacement, there are usually issues UNDER it that need attention. >Teak decks are pretty heavy, and adding more weight that high up in the boat is >probably not a great idea. US battleships had four inch thick teak decks. Weight was hardly an issue, but can you imagine the cost at today's prices? Casady >>Teak decks are pretty heavy, and adding more weight that high up in the boat is >>probably not a great idea. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Casady Okay. I'll agree that if you have a battleship, you might get away with adding another 1/4 inch of teak to the decks without compromising stability much. :') >>I provide teak decking for the DIY folks and have received several >>inquiries [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > boat is > probably not a great idea. First off teak is not a heavy hardwood. A square foot of 1/4" x 1-5/8" teak weighs 14 ounces. Any teak deck that requires replacing has probably had that 1/4" worn off in service. > By the time a teak deck needs replacement, there are usually issues UNDER > it > that need attention. Yes, that is the point and where someone competent is required to sample areas of the old deck to acertain if the subdeck is sound enough to apply a new 'top' deck. ...Ken >Any teak deck that requires replacing has probably had that 1/4" worn off in >service. Every cruise ship I have been on had teak decks. They didn't maintain them, hosed them down, perhaps, and I don't know why they would wear much if any. Traffic wouldn't do it, those things are big and the wear would be well diluted. The planks were perhaps three inches wide, and must have been maybe 3/4 inch thick? You need a certain thickness, relative to width, to avoid cupping. Of course they don't have to impress the neighbors with well sanded teak. I mean we saw one boxboat in two atlantic crossings. Casady >>Any teak deck that requires replacing has probably had that 1/4" worn off >>in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Casady And your point is ? I have been through a number of cruise ships at the 'ship breaking yards' and , over years, watched teak deteriorate on the stump. Do you believe that teak decking does not wear thin ? regards...Ken >> Any teak deck that requires replacing has probably had that 1/4" worn off in >> service. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > impress the neighbors with well sanded teak. I mean we saw one boxboat > in two atlantic crossings. Cruise ships built in the Aker yards in Finland have at least 4" thick teak decks. (I've seen photos). They probably sand them down every year with a floor sander. Never have to replace them during the life of the ship with that much thickness. Evan Gatehouse >>> Any teak deck that requires replacing has probably had that 1/4" worn >>> off in service. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Evan Gatehouse Your right, however those 4" thick decks often only have two inches of usable life until the decks wear down to the screw/bolt height. These days that is more than ample as the life of a cruise ship is often limited to 30 to 40 working years. The S.S. Norway was built in 1961 and now sits in the mud at the India shipbreaking yards. ...Ken >ruise ships built in the Aker yards in Finland have at least 4" thick > teak decks. (I've seen photos). They probably sand them down every >year with a floor sander. Never have to replace them during the life >of the ship with that much thickness. US battleships were built with four inch thick teak decks.In the case of the cruise ships, I had thought the teak was supposed to be good for the life of the ship. If they never sanded it, it would last forever, and not just forever for all practical purposes. Casady >>>I provide teak decking for the DIY folks and have received several >>>inquiries [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >First off teak is not a heavy hardwood. A square foot of 1/4" x 1-5/8" teak >weighs 14 ounces. Teak decks are heavy. When replacement time arrives, many sailors wisely remove the teak and simply leave it off. For cruisers, that gives them extra capacity for things that they DO need without raising the waterline. I'd rather have 400 pounds of water, or a bigger battery bank,(both lower in the hull) than 400 pounds of teak on the deck. >>>>I provide teak decking for the DIY folks and have received several >>>>inquiries [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >pounds of water, or a bigger battery bank,(both lower in the hull) than 400 >pounds of teak on the deck. I think an engine for a sail boat should have enough power to reach hull speed into a 25 MPH wind. Many boats have too small an engine. More batteries, fuel, or water is always good, if the.motor is already big enough. Of course, more power is probably more trouble and money than it is worth. >>>>> I provide teak decking for the DIY folks and have received several >>>>> inquiries [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > big enough. Of course, more power is probably more trouble and money > than it is worth. Wow, hull speed into 25 knots of wind. That's a lot of power. It would be impossible to power at hull speed into a 25 knot wind, and the seas that much wind kicks up. >Wow, hull speed into 25 knots of wind. That's a lot of power. Of course it isn't. Remember, power required varies with the cube of the speed, and hull speed just isn't fast. I figure maybe 100 HP for a thirty foot boat. Maybe less. It's the fifteen horse motors I object to. Battleships won't do hull speed on 1 to 4 HP per ton either. I am guessing you can get three times what is average, for not too much space and weight. >It would be impossible to power at hull speed into a 25 knot wind, and >the seas that much wind kicks up. Of course it is possible, it just takes sufficient power. You can get 500 HP out of a ton or so of diesel machinery. Many modern engines, Yanmars for example, put out more than one HP per cubic inch. It is certainly possible and the fact that most boats won't do it is rather the point of my post. I figure you can live with a ten percent mileage penalty with the bigger motor. If there is enough room for large waves to kick up, you can generally sail. I had in mind up a narrow river channel against wind, current, and tide. Places like the inside passage to Alaska, more motor might be handy. I have done lots of sailing, not cruising, in more than 25 MPH of wind and 2 to 3 foot waves. I used to launch a Sunfish off the beach into a 25 MPH wind. You waded out to where the water was deep enough to lower the daggerboard. And on the return I would just run it in with the board out. The rudder would kick up like a centerboard. Sometimes got it up three or so feet past the waters edge, if I timed a wave just right. Same lake had some 25 MPH sailboats: scows. >>Wow, hull speed into 25 knots of wind. That's a lot of power. > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >it up three or so feet past the waters edge, if I timed a wave just >right. Same lake had some 25 MPH sailboats: scows. How big was the auxiliary on your Sunfish? >>I have done lots of sailing, not cruising, in more than 25 MPH of wind >>and 2 to 3 foot waves. 25mph winds? Force 5-6 and only 2-3ft waves? uh huh... >>>I have done lots of sailing, not cruising, in more than 25 MPH of wind >>>and 2 to 3 foot waves. > >25mph winds? Force 5-6 and only 2-3ft waves? uh huh... I'm not the one who posted that, however I have sailed in similar conditions. It's not impossible for those conditions to occur. >How big was the auxiliary on your Sunfish? How about the family heirloom 1920 vintage 1/2 HP Evinrude.? My dad used that motor as the auxiliary on a 20 foot schooner that he built on a rowboat hull. You could probably mount it on a Sunfish, it maybe weighs 25 pounds. Has a nasty starting rope, but it is at least easy to start. It may even have low hours on it, no way to tell. Casady (about hull speed to 25 MPH winds) > I figure maybe 100 HP for a thirty foot boat. Maybe less. > It's the fifteen horse motors I object to. Battleships won't do hull > speed on 1 to 4 HP per ton either. Here in Denmark, 100 HP in a 30' boat would immediately classify it as a motorboat. With enough rig we might accept it as a motor sailer, but most people here would not consider it a reasonable configuration for a sailboat. Maybe it is a cultural thing, but most sailors here don't compare their boats to battleships. "Hull speed", as far as I understand the term, is the maximum a boat can possibly do. Not the minimum it has to attain under any circumstances, sail or motor. I quite enjoy sailing on an old 8-meter boat, about 30' long. I don't remember the details of the engine, but it is well in the neighbourhood of your 15 HP. It is more than sufficient to get us out of Copenhagen harbour and in again. In my (too short) spare time I dream of building my own boat - that's why I follow this newsgroup. It will be under 30' long, probably rigged as a schooner, and I will not go to the excess of 15 HP motor, more like half of that. But, of course, it all depends on where, how, and why you want to sail. Best regards Heikki On Jan 6, 3:59 pm, sa...@dog.com wrote: > >I provide teak decking for the DIY folks and have received several inquiries > >regarding laying thin (1/4") teak strips over an existing failed teak deck. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > By the time a teak deck needs replacement, there are usually issues UNDER it > that need attention. So far I have done quarersawn white oak over plywood and red oak parquet over plywood on another boat. I did the parquet red oak because I was stupid and it was cheap at Home Depot. It will work after saturating it with 5 gallons of penitration epoxy and then coating the deck with $300 worth of two part marine epoxy. Yes...I know, really stupid. But I am sharing this in case another boat lover is thinking about taking that ratty carpet out of the boat they are restoring and putting a nice deck over the plywood. I was told that bamboo flooring wouldn't work, because you can't glue it down. Bamboo shrinks and expands so much that a floor has to be floated. I am a wooden boat guy, and I believe that carpet in a wooden boat causes mildew, and rot. It stops air circulation and gets heavier and heavier over time. Does anyone know what the best carpet for boat interior or exterior that can be snapped in, and doesn't mildew? I would be more concerned about movement in the old deck putting strain on the veneered deck seams. I believe it would probably work but I would suggest a layer of 6oz glass and epoxy over the old sanded and acetone washed deck. Then take care to lay out the new deck with the seams positioned over the center of the old boards. Still there could be a problem with moisture from below. Especially if the old deck is flat sawn rather than quartered. As the humidity on the back surface changes the old flat or riff sawn teak could cup. That would put some weird stresses on the new deck.  SignatureGlenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com > I provide teak decking for the DIY folks and have received several > inquiries regarding laying thin (1/4") teak strips over an existing failed [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > .......Ken >I would be more concerned about movement in the old deck putting strain on >the veneered deck seams. I believe it would probably work but I would [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > back surface changes the old flat or riff sawn teak could cup. That would > put some weird stresses on the new deck. Potential moisture below the old decking is certainly the area of greatest concern and may require lifting small sections of the old deck to search for trouble spots. I would use a polyurethane adhesive rather than epoxy and matting to allow for any possible movement . I doubt that cupping would be a factor in a well weathered deck made up of 1.5 to 2 inch teak strips. Thanks for your opinion..........Ken >> I provide teak decking for the DIY folks and have received several >> inquiries regarding laying thin (1/4") teak strips over an existing [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> .......Ken > I provide teak decking for the DIY folks and have received several inquiries > regarding laying thin (1/4") teak strips over an existing failed teak deck. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > .......Ken I have a 1949 Chris Craft 33foot DeLuxe Enclosed Cruiser. I hate carpet on boats if it isn't snap-in. I only like snap-in cause it can be removed and cleaned off the boat, dried in the sun, coated with scotchguard and put back in the boat, also it can be removed for winter storage. Also, after working for Olympic Boat Center and going on the tours of Bayliner factories, I found that any carpeting from the factory is the cheapest, most worthless carpet on the planet. But the carpet they give you makes really good patterns to make your own. And altogether, your looking at, what, 4-6 yards of really nice stuff, to make your feet really happy? And it isn't very technical either. But I took all the carpet out of the saloon and put in 5/8 quartersawn tongue in groove, white oak. A bigger job than I thought. But boy, do the lookylou's like it!! |
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