Lamp Oil substitutes
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Jeff Fisher - 30 Jul 2004 18:20 GMT I noticed that BBQ starter fluid (Wal Mart brand) seems to be basically the same as liquid paraffin. It looks the same in a clear glass, it has far less scent that liquid paraffin (I was surprised at this), approximately the same viscosity, it burns very similarly (when poured on a rag), the smoke produced looks and smells the same and since I have several large oil lamps onboard, and lamp oil costs about US$ 12/gal. while starter fluid is US$8 /gal (maybe less) I ask: Does anyone (chemically knowledgeable) know if "BBQ starter fluid" is a valid substitute for "liquid paraffin". If not, does anyone know of a less expensive substitute ?
Doug Dotson - 30 Jul 2004 19:28 GMT I think that BBQ starter fluid is basically kerosine. Interesting that you mention the odor of liquid parafin. I have been using liquid parafin in my oil lamps for years and it has absolutely no odor. That was the whole point of using it.
Doug s/v Callista
> I noticed that BBQ starter fluid (Wal Mart brand) seems to be basically > the same as liquid paraffin. It looks the same in a clear glass, it has [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > valid substitute for "liquid paraffin". If not, does anyone know of a > less expensive substitute ? Jeff Fisher - 30 Jul 2004 21:25 GMT Hi Doug, You are right that they (both) have no odor while burning. I poured each into a clear glass and smelled them, to my nose, the starter fluid was "odorless" while the liquid paraffin lamp oil (Ultra Pure brand) did have a distinctive odor. It does not smell like kerosene to me. Thanks for you input. Jeff
>I think that BBQ starter fluid is basically kerosine. Interesting that >you mention the odor of liquid parafin. I have been using liquid [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Gordon Wedman - 30 Jul 2004 20:07 GMT Well neither "BBQ starter fluid" or "liquid paraffin" are chemical names so its difficult to give a definitive answer. Different manufacturers might use somewhat different distillates. If you could get a "Material Safety Data Sheet, MSDS" from the manufacturer/supplier this might allow you to figure out how close they are. You want to look at data for : flash point boiling range or boiling point composition, possibly carbon number range,e.g.. C7-C14
From your description they sound pretty similar in properties, close enough for burning in lamps. Basically you want to avoid using anything too volatile/flammable like naphtha or something that's going to be too smoky, the other end of the spectrum.
> I noticed that BBQ starter fluid (Wal Mart brand) seems to be basically > the same as liquid paraffin. It looks the same in a clear glass, it has [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > valid substitute for "liquid paraffin". If not, does anyone know of a > less expensive substitute ? Jeff Fisher - 30 Jul 2004 21:17 GMT Gordon, I checked both "lamp oil" and "starter fluid" at the national MSDS repository and there are a couple of different products companies / product names for lamp oil and only one for starter fluid. The info is different and sparse so I could glean much. I did note that starter fluid from Texaco contains benzene! Thanks for your input. Jeff
>Well neither "BBQ starter fluid" or "liquid paraffin" are chemical names so >its difficult to give a definitive answer. Different manufacturers might [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Doug Dotson - 30 Jul 2004 22:56 GMT Charcoal starter ins't a chemical name as you say, but I believe "liquid parafin" is pretty specific.
Doug s/v Callista
> Well neither "BBQ starter fluid" or "liquid paraffin" are chemical names so > its difficult to give a definitive answer. Different manufacturers might [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > valid substitute for "liquid paraffin". If not, does anyone know of a > > less expensive substitute ? Rosalie B. - 31 Jul 2004 14:56 GMT We get lamp oil at places like KMart. Sometimes all we can get is scented, which is more expensive and we don't like it.
Doing a search I find (in order of increasing cost without shipping)
https://www.craftsetc.com/Store/ShowProduct.aspx?c=40&p=317453 Lf03 Liquid Flame No Smoke Lamp Oil Our Price: $1.99 SKU: 317453 Color: UNSCENTED CLEAR Size: 16 OZ [0.124/oz]
http://doityourself.com/store/6104277.htm 45 Oz. Clear Ultrapure Lamp Oil by Lamplight Farms SKU: 6104277 Candle & Lamp Oil Ultra - Pure 45 Ounces Color = Clear Retail Value: $8.95 DoItYourself.com Price: $6.49 [0.143/oz]
Star Light Lamp Fuel - Ice Blue Lamp Oil Star Light Lamp Fuel is pure liquid paraffin, safe to burn, odorless and smokeless. 24 Fluid Ounces (710ml) will burn for approx. 150 hours $4.95 [0.20.65/oz]
http://www.discountcandleshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/2294 Liquid Paraffin Lamp Oil - 1 Gallon: $24.08 [0.188/gal] 22 oz. $4.75 [0.21.59/oz] Our 99% pure, uncolored liquid paraffin lamp oil is clean burning, smokeless, and odorless.
http://www.orvis.com/store/product_choice.asp?adv=1195&dir_id=1034&pf_id=FG2415& feature_id=100&group_id=1854&cat_id=5185&cktst=true&subcat_id=6130 Safety First Lamp Oil from Orvis
Top-quality lamp oil burns free of odor, with no smoke or carbon build-up. So safe, we ship it UPS or Parcel Post. 97% paraffin. Set of two 1-quart bottles. $15.00 Safety First Lamp Oil (SI2415-00-00) (so that is $15.00 for two quarts or 0.46/oz)
I found a survivalist website which under Oil Lamp Basics says:
>The easiest fuel to use is lamp oil and its available in any large store, Wal-Mart, Kmart, Ames, etc. and most of the small ones around us too. Weve also used kerosene but everybody I talk to recommends NOT using gasoline or alcohol.
>Well neither "BBQ starter fluid" or "liquid paraffin" are chemical names so >its difficult to give a definitive answer. Different manufacturers might [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> valid substitute for "liquid paraffin". If not, does anyone know of a >> less expensive substitute ? grandma Rosalie
MLapla4120 - 30 Jul 2004 23:42 GMT >I have >several large oil lamps onboard, and lamp oil costs about US$ 12/gal. I bought a gallon of Weems and Plath liquid paraffin for about $20.00 at West Marine. I, for one would like to find a good substitute.
Phil - 31 Jul 2004 13:04 GMT Defender.com has 2.5 g lamp oil for $25.99 plus shipping
> >I have > >several large oil lamps onboard, and lamp oil costs about US$ 12/gal. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Marine. I, for one would like to find a > good substitute. Keith - 07 Aug 2004 11:18 GMT Try Wal-mart or a crafts store like Garden Ridge Pottery. They all should have liquid parrafin and lamp oil.
 Signature Keith __ Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites?
> Defender.com has 2.5 g lamp oil for $25.99 plus shipping > > >I have [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Marine. I, for one would like to find a > > good substitute. Courtney Thomas - 04 Aug 2004 04:27 GMT I just bought 2.5 gallons of non-smoking unscented lamp oil at West Marine for $20.
HTH
>>I have >>several large oil lamps onboard, and lamp oil costs about US$ 12/gal. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Marine. I, for one would like to find a > good substitute.
 Signature s/v Mutiny Rhodes Bounty II lying Oriental, NC WDB5619
JAXAshby - 04 Aug 2004 03:29 GMT >I just bought 2.5 gallons of non-smoking unscented lamp oil at West >Marine for $20. > >HTH I hate to tell you this, but you didn't, unless you bought way below market price. you probably bought the middle grade stuff.
kerosene was a buck eighty the last time I bought 2.5 gallons (last October), while mostly kinda smokeless lamp stuff was about six bux a gallon, and the good stuff (interior lamp stuff for several hours at a time use) was about $12 a gallon, if you bought a gallon at a time ($3.99 for 20 oz at your local, friendly candle store selling your wife items "mood enhancement").
I use (successfully, if you count taking care to lower the burner and to trim the wick, both to reduce sooting of the glass) kero for an outdoor anchor light (makes the boat distinctive, and is legal under the colregs) and the high priced stuff for cabin lamps. The high priced stuff has no smell or soot.
Sam - 31 Jul 2004 19:40 GMT If not, does anyone know of a
> less expensive substitute ? Years ago we bought an oil lamp and it suggested using "Gulf Lite" charcoal starter which worked real good,no smell and it didn't smoke up the chimney much at all.
Sam - 01 Aug 2004 17:13 GMT > If not, does anyone know of a > > less expensive substitute ? > > Years ago we bought an oil lamp and it suggested using "Gulf Lite" > charcoal starter which worked real good,no smell and it didn't smoke > up the chimney much at all. It also seemed to have a whiter, brighter flame.
longhaul6 - 01 Aug 2004 14:05 GMT Mineral spirits, or paint thinner containing 100% mineral spirits from the paint department of your local hardware store is a low cost fuel for kerosene lamps and stoves. It is cleaner than kerosene, though likely not quite as odor free as good lamp oil. Usually about $3/gallon around here.
I would suggest buying a cheap kerosene lamp and testing any "new" fuel before using it aboard.
Allan Paterson - 04 Aug 2004 21:35 GMT Ahoy There:
IF the walk/drive to airport doesn't ruin cost/benefit try JET FUEL. Yes I said "jet fuel". Been told it's just high-grade kerosene. (By a cruising sailor who found only problem was their nozzle was about 2-3 inches in diameter.=take your own funnel. lol) Don't remember the price, but WAY below a dollar a gallon.
Heard all this just about the time I moved ashore, so can not personally vouch for validity of info. But sounds logical to me.
LEfantduVent@msn.com
dbraun - 08 Aug 2004 16:45 GMT The cheapest best source will always depend on your particular location. I am able to get high grade K-1 kerosene from my local fuel supplier for about $1.85 per gal. I bring my own container and it is pumped from a gas pump. You could find a similar dealer in your own area, these guys typically provide lubricants for truck fleets and jobsite fueling services.
DO NOT use jet fuel. It may be high grade kerosene, but it also has dye and other attitives. It smokes up a lamp worse than diesel fuel or stoddard solvent.
K-1 is the designator for the highest grade of kerosene. You can often buy kerosene designated as K-1 in the solvents section of the hardware store. My experience with this hardware store kerosene is that it is of lesser quality than the kerosene that I get from the pump. Charcoal lighter fluid and paint thinner are suitable substitutes for lamp oil, I have used them many times in a pinch.
Everytime you buy lamp oil, test the quality of the batch. Use an old cheapie lantern and look for smoke and sooting. That is another reason I like to buy 10 gallons at a time from the pump. One test and I know it is all the same. Also note that different lamps are more particular. I burn Aladdin mantel lamps and any kerosene contamination will soot up the mantel and stink like hell when the lamp is extinguished. Your own particular needs will vary depending on equipment.
If you are paying more thatn $2.20/ gal., you are paying tooo much . Shop around a little.
David S/V Nausicaa
JAXAshby - 08 Aug 2004 17:10 GMT I have used K-1 from a pump (in my anchor lamp) and find it soots up terrible unless I trim the wick carefully AND turn the wick way down low. Even then it soots up, but not really, really, really bad as before.
Parafin lamp oil, on the other hand, I find burns cleanly, brightly and without odor. Don't care in my anchor light, but do most definitely care in my cabin lamps.
>The cheapest best source will always depend on your particular location. I >am able to get high grade K-1 kerosene from my local fuel supplier for [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >David >S/V Nausicaa Martin Combs - 21 Aug 2004 17:13 GMT You can buy a product called KLEAN-HEAT at most Home Depot or Lowes stores look in the Kerosene Heater section. A gallon jug costs around 5 dollars. It burns very clean and does not soot up the glass globe on a kerosene lantern and it is easy to locate in those stores. It a kerosene alternative.
Marty www.knotstuff.com
http://www.angelfire.com/ak/skateworld/dietzlanterns
Ilv2sl - 27 Aug 2004 16:19 GMT Why not use 12 volt lights? No fuel to carry around. No smell. No fire hazard. 1/2 - 1 amp hour/light. A oil lamp is nice for a romantic setting, but for quality of light, convienence. I'll go with 12 volt. I'm talking about use for full time cruising. Electric use for interior lighting, is a very small amount, compared to usage for refrigeration. Just the way I do it, cruising full time.
JAXAshby - 28 Aug 2004 04:31 GMT well, the difference between 2 amp-hrs/day and 120 amp-hrs/day is a about 5,000 pounds in weight of the boat and generator and batteries. but, who's counting.
>From: ilv2sl@aol.comnospam (Ilv2sl) >Date: 8/27/2004 11:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >for refrigeration. >Just the way I do it, cruising full time. Over40pirate - 28 Aug 2004 17:12 GMT >well, the difference between 2 amp-hrs/day and 120 amp-hrs/day is a about >5,000 >pounds in weight of the boat and generator and batteries. but, who's >counting. Wow! 118 amp-hrs extra for lights! You must like it bright! And 5,000 #'s for a few extra batteries? A generator? On our boat, with 12 volt refrig, amps used for lightning is maybe 10% of our total amp use. The big batteries, hi output alt, solar panels, are needed for the refrig. not the lights Sail on
Brent Geery - 28 Aug 2004 11:27 GMT > Why not use 12 volt lights? No fuel to carry around. No smell. No fire hazard. > 1/2 - 1 amp hour/light. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > for refrigeration. > Just the way I do it, cruising full time. Reliability, and complexity. You should always have a backup.
 Signature BRENT - The Usenet typo king. :)
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