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Boat Forum / Cruising / April 2005



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Penobscott Bay, ME to St John River, New Brunswick

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richard - 24 Apr 2005 18:06 GMT
We are planning to cruise in a 25 ft powerboat from somewhere in
Penobscott Bay to the St John River, NB during the last two weeks of
July. We need some advise on where to stay along the way, and what to
watch for.

Thanks.
Ansley Sawyer - 24 Apr 2005 22:20 GMT
Richard,

We cruise out of Rockland and have been up as far as Campobello and Grand
Manan. I would be happy to give you information on places along the coast.
First get the cruising guide to the coast of Maine by the Tafts and Rinlab
(sp?).

Ansley Sawyer
SV Pacem
Mobius - 25 Apr 2005 02:16 GMT
> We are planning to cruise in a 25 ft powerboat from somewhere in
> Penobscott Bay to the St John River, NB during the last two weeks of
> July. We need some advise on where to stay along the way, and what to
> watch for.
>
> Thanks.

Hi, I live in Oromocto, NB and sail the Saint John River. I've got the
entire river and the Kennebecasis, Washamadoak and most of Grand Lake
plotted into routes for my GPS, something like 219 waypoints. Plus Saint
John to Digby NS. If you want them, let me know. Check here
http://www.coastguides.com/r8/r8.html?http%3A//www.coastguides.com/r8/8.14Revers
ingFalls.html

for lots of good info. Several good marinas on the river, lots of old ferry
docks (in bad shape) where you can tie up and go ashore. Lots to explore. If
I can answer any questions..ask away. Are you planning on going up the river
or turning around at Saint John?
Al
Armond Perretta - 25 Apr 2005 13:31 GMT
> We are planning to cruise in a 25 ft powerboat from somewhere in
> Penobscott Bay to the St John River, NB during the last two weeks of
> July. We need some advise on where to stay along the way, and what
> to watch for.

First get the charts and cruising guides.  Ample study will be rewarded

With a 25 footer you should be very sure to have a radar and electronic
piloting gear.  If your 25 footer is an outboard, you should make your way
only in settled weather with good visibility.

The stretch over to Schoodic is well protected and there are many places
where a small power boat can hide in the event of bad weather or low
visibility.  Once beyond Schoodic you are in different conditions and
essentially offshore (or at least exposed coastal), and the conditions can
become difficult very quickly.  However there are many stops that are
frankly quite beautiful, though usually a bit off the direct route to Grand
Manan Passage.

Beyond the passage, you are in big tidal waters and must act accordingly.

Signature

Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Roger Long - 25 Apr 2005 15:08 GMT
> With a 25 footer you should be very sure to have a radar and
> electronic
> piloting gear.  If your 25 footer is an outboard, you should make
> your way
> only in settled weather with good visibility.

Nonsense! (But, like much nonsense, good advice.)

Even with all the gadgets, your basic piloting skills should be good
enough to get around without them up here.  If you can't get around in
the fog, you are going to spend a lot of time, sometimes a couple
weeks at a stretch, in port.  Running in the fog is sure a lot more
interesting and satisfying than stewing at anchor.

The dangers in Maine tend to have deepwater around them so you can
usually detect them with plenty of water under your keel.  Know
exactly how fast your boat goes at various RPM's and have your compass
exactly adjusted.  Keep a constant update on your speed and course and
know how to adjust for current.  There are convenient current speed
and direction indicators scattered all over this part of the world.
Some people call them lobster pots but they don't look anything like
any pot I ever saw.

If you plan your courses to whistles, bells, and the frequent bold
headlands, you can get around just fine with just a clock and a
compass.  Have back up plans for where you will go if time runs out
and you haven't found a mark.  You may well be safer with your eyes
ahead and paying close attention to what is around you than with hour
head down trying to remember which button to push on the GPS.

Above all, if you don't have a lot of piloting experience, start right
now doing it constantly in good weather when you can relate what you
are doing to what you can see around you.  It will then be a lot
easier when all you see is gray.

Don't let lack of radar stop you.  Unless you really train in how to
interpret it, it may actually distract you dangerously.  GPS is so
cheap now that you should have it primarily so that you don't look
silly afterwards if you do get in trouble but people got around fine
without it for centuries.  Treat it as a back up and just one more bit
of information.

It's a lot more rewarding to use basic chart skills and keep your eyes
and ears on what's around you than just follow the little arrow around
on the screen.  When the beep tells you that the batteries just died,
you can carry on as if nothing had happend.

Signature

Roger Long

Armond Perretta - 25 Apr 2005 20:12 GMT
> Someone, probably me, wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Nonsense! (But, like much nonsense, good advice.)

Maybe someone else knows what this means, but I don't.

> Don't let lack of radar stop you.  Unless you really train in how to
> interpret it, it may actually distract you dangerously ...

I used to believe that sailing the Maine coast was only for the hardy and
well prepared (piloting-wise), and by and large I still do.  But these days
there is _no_ excuse for laying the onus on the lobsterman and running
without radar.  If a person decides to go without radar in these waters,
what he is essentially saying is:  "Hey, I'm just up here to have a good
time, so please keep your eye on your radar.  While you are pulling your
traps and a hundred or so other things, stare at the radar so you don't
spoil my fun, run over me and my kids, and kill me."  Strangely, many
fishermen don't take kindly to this.

The original poster who is learning the "piloting ropes" to prepare for this
expedition should also take into account the possibility that laying a GPS
course to (or cleaning out the ear wax to be able to hear) a bell buoy
involves the assumption that the bell buoy is still where you think it was 2
years ago when the chart was printed.  Often this is the case.

Signature

Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Roger Long - 25 Apr 2005 20:52 GMT
I don't know what part of Maine you've been sailing in but radar is
hardly standard equipment up here.

I'll bet that there are far, far more radar sets though than there are
people trained enough in their use so that they could actually avoid
being hit by another vessel that wasn't keeping a visual watch.  The
random way the lobsterboats loop around from trap to trap, even a
trained, full time, observer would have a hard time figuring out the
relative bearings.

Signature

Roger Long

Armond Perretta - 25 Apr 2005 22:43 GMT
> I don't know what part of Maine you've been sailing in but radar is
> hardly standard equipment up here.

I have been sailing in the part that starts at Kittery and ends near
Eastport.

Decades ago I sailed the Maine coast confident that my piloting skills,
updated charts, superior eyesight, and good hearing, plus my tremendous
good luck, would keep me out of trouble.

Recently (say in the last 8 to 10 years or so) I noticed that radar sets had
gotten got a lot cheaper, a lot easier to use, and a lot less power hungry.
I also noticed that just about every 17 foot Whaler I saw in and around
Mount Desert sported a radome.  Hmmmm.

Having been using a small radar for a while now, I don't think I would be
without.  Further, I no longer get really dirty looks from the professional
fishermen I sometimes bump into.

Well, not actually "bump."

Signature

Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/

Denis Marier - 25 Apr 2005 21:07 GMT
True, however human behavior evolves for the better of worse.
Years ago I only had a compass and did the trip from Saint John to Bar
Harbor and return many time.  In those days a radar cost around $5000.00 to
6000.00.  People were trained to use their skills according to sound,
direction of wind, smell and many others.  People on the water were on the
look out.  More so they were trained to stay in port when the fog was heavy.
Today, peoples skills have changed.  It became much easier to use GPS, RADAR
and other navigational aids and more people are sailing in heavy fog.
With this new breed of sailors navigating in peas soup fog you place an old
timer using only his manual skill to get home and you have an interesting
situation.
When a commercial fisherman drops his lobster cages he make sure that the
way point is recorded and programmed in the autopilot.  When he comes back
to pick up the cages he sets his autopilot as per the way points.  This way
only two people are required to check the cages.  In practice almost no
fishermen has a vigil on the radar except to return home with his catch.
This means that at 80% of the time the fishermen will not see you while they
are picking up their cages on autopilot.  As every fishermen has a license
for a well designate area they know no other fishing boat will enter their
zone.  Now here come a pleasure craft entering the fishermen zone in heavy
fog without a radar.  The probability that the commercial fishermen will see
you on their radar is remote.
Most claims filled with the insurance companies originate from this type of
collision.
The question is who will the insurance believe the pleasure craft that
knowingly and willingly navigated in heavy for without the proper equipment
or the commercial fishermen fully equipped with navigating in the fog?

> > Someone, probably me, wrote:
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> involves the assumption that the bell buoy is still where you think it was 2
> years ago when the chart was printed.  Often this is the case.
Roger Long - 25 Apr 2005 22:10 GMT
I'll have to confess that you've got me thinking about something that
hadn't occurred to me.  In the 15 years since I did any cruising,
cheap gadgets probably have changed the behavior of all the other
boats.  The idea that these yuppies and dot-com'ers are out there
blindly following little cursors around like a video game is so
consistent with human nature as to be inevitable.  I may not like this
world I'm going to find when I get back out there again in a couple
weeks.

Every vessel is required to keep a visual watch and be able to stop
and maneuver within the limits of the visibility, regardless of the
equipment on board but that's certainly right up there with observing
road speed limits.  I never had a problem with a lobsterboat back in
my cruising days.  They came out of the fog, waved, and disappeared.
Few had radar or autopilots at that time.   I'm sure the probability
of collision is much higher now that they do.

Maybe I should have just stuck with flying.

Signature

Roger Long

richard - 27 Apr 2005 03:28 GMT
Not sure if my last post went thru. Please forgive me if I am double
posting

Wanted to say thanks to everyone for being so helpful. You have given
us alot to think about. we have the charts and cruising guides that you
suggested. We are still in the early planing stages and will have more
questions I am sure after we do some deeper research.
PS-We launched our 25 footer today for the season and we couldn't be
happier.
If anyone has any other thoughts that would be great. thanks again
Richard
Denis Marier - 25 Apr 2005 15:29 GMT
If this is your first time, you need to do some reading.
As a starter I recommend an old favorite "Cruising Guide to the New England
Coast".
The original copy of this book was compiled from sailors and their real
experiences.
I do not know what type of boat you have and how much fuel you need per
hour.
As a sailboat owner I had to learn to navigate with the tides and currents.
On the US side one has to navigate around the lobsters pods.  Sometimes
lobsters pods are attached in pair with a toggle cable having a lead core.
In good visibility you can see these.  In peas soup fog you have to slow
down and have a vigil in front of your boat. After you get to Cutler you
will enter the Grand Manan Channel. Your should enter the Grand Manan
Channel as per your calculation and timing for the Saint John reversing
falls.  If you enter the channel with the tide you will benefit from a 2-3
knots current if not you will have to buck it and use more fuel and time.
You should draw your course to stay away from the Lepreau rip tides
Once in Canadian water it is a good practice to inform Fundy Coast Guard
Radio of you position.  They in return will validate your position on their
radar.  Then you have to make arrangement with the Canadian Custom.  Your
next step is to go through the reversing falls.  Your calculations to go
through the falls should be all done and proven.
As for the rest of the information needed for you trip you will have to do
the pertinent reading and get the right information from charts and sailing
directions.
In peas soup fog Radar alone is not enough.  You will need a GPS and dept
sounder.
Some old timer are know to carry spare parts for their power boat.

> > We are planning to cruise in a 25 ft powerboat from somewhere in
> > Penobscott Bay to the St John River, NB during the last two weeks of
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Beyond the passage, you are in big tidal waters and must act accordingly.
Denis Marier - 25 Apr 2005 21:28 GMT
This an addendum to my earlier posting.
I have just been informed by our Yacht club that we have new rules for
boaters going to the US and Canada.

Please check:  U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION ANNOUNCES ADDITIONAL
SECURITY ENHANCEMENTS FOR PLEASURE BOATERS

Press Release  Date: April 21, 2005

Contact: PAO Mike Milne, Customs and Border Patrol

Phone: (206) 553-6944 Ext. 614

> If this is your first time, you need to do some reading.
> As a starter I recommend an old favorite "Cruising Guide to the New England
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> >
> > Beyond the passage, you are in big tidal waters and must act accordingly.
 
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