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Boat Forum / Cruising / June 2005Pointin into the wind
Its 2005, why do we still have to do this silly pointing into the wind to get the main up or down or to reef it. Surely someone could come up with a way to reef or get the main up or down on any point of sail. I know most sailors are conservative but I am not so if ya got any ideas let me know. Aside fornm getting the sail caught in the shrouds, do boats with rotating masts such as some multihulls have this problem? Well, on my boat the only reason we have to turn into the wind is because the sliders on the mast rail bind otherwise. I guess that if you had some kind of roller system that could take the side load without binding instead of sliders, the sail would come down or go up easily as long as it wasnt't binding on your rearmost standing rigging. That would be nice IMO. I wouldn't be surprised to find that somebody makes such a system that will replace my stainless steel and plastic sliders, but I haven't run across it. Don W. > Its 2005, why do we still have to do this silly pointing into the wind > to get the main up or down or to reef it. Surely someone could come up > with a way to reef or get the main up or down on any point of sail. I > know most sailors are conservative but I am not so if ya got any ideas > let me know. While reading rec.boats.cruising, I noticed Don W <donw_at_swbell_dot_net@figure.it.out> felt compelled to write: >Well, on my boat the only reason we have to turn into the wind is because >the sliders on the mast rail bind otherwise. I guess that if you had some [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >such a system that will replace my stainless steel and plastic sliders, but >I haven't run across it. I use full battens terminating into Rutgeson battcars (it is important to only have cars on the full length battens to be able to do this, intermediate sliders or cars will bind in the track), and with a downhaul rigged can reef my 10m Farrier Trimaran off the wind in up to 20kts. Neat for effortlessly dropping the main neatly into the lazy-jacks at the end of the day, too. http://www.rutgerson.se/downloads/sailhardware/Fullbatten.pdf Ian > Its 2005, why do we still have to do this silly pointing into the wind > to get the main up or down or to reef it. Surely someone could come up > with a way to reef or get the main up or down on any point of sail. I > know most sailors are conservative but I am not so if ya got any ideas > let me know. Look at the pictures I just posted to alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean newsgroup of the Amel Sharki 41 ketch. There's a gearbox at the bottom of a long stainless rod with the slot cut in it to hold the sail. Plug a winch into the gearbox drive in the front of the mast opposite the slot. Wrap the outhaul around a handy winch on the mast and a 12 year old boy can haul the main in and out in any point of sail, even backwards! See how the edges of the slot are nicely rounded into the round interior of the mast so's not to catch the fabric of the sail draging across it....Unlike that damned stupid rubber slot in a Beneteau that guarantees any little fold in the sail will surely SEIZE in the tiny slot. The only problem we've encountered with the Amel's furling is outhauling too hard bends the 2" diameter long furling rod into the slot. Once you get the hang of GENTLY pulling on the outhaul while furling it into the mast, it's really easy. The roughest part is being thrown about trying to get TO the mast in heavy seas...(c; Even if the sail is hard against the shrouds, it furls right up easily every time....nice and neat.  SignatureLarry You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in chalk. Instead of having the sail on slides running in a slot on the mast, put a vertically tensioned cable just aft of the mast, say 2 cm back running from boom to top of mast. The sliders will be rings around this cable and will be unable to bind. Being seriously radical, get rid of the vertical mast and replace it with a sort of vertical wishbone with a vertical cable running its length down the middle where the mast would be. You would have conventional fore and back stays but the spreader and shrouds would be different. The sail RINGS would run up and down the vertical cable. Furhtermore, this sail would be more efficient than one with a conventional mast as the airflow would not be disturbed by the mast. > Being seriously radical, get rid of the vertical mast and replace it > with a sort of vertical wishbone with a vertical cable running its [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Furhtermore, this sail would be more efficient than one with a > conventional mast as the airflow would not be disturbed by the mast. I had a chance to go aboard the 50 ft South Carolina with the same type of rig, in which Robin Davie sailed the 98-99 Around Alone. Impressive boat... He did retire from the race due gear problems, but did complete the circumnavigation approximately 5 hours after the winner. >> Its 2005, why do we still have to do this silly pointing into the wind >> to get the main up or down or to reef it. Surely someone could come up >> with a way to reef or get the main up or down on any point of sail. I >> know most sailors are conservative but I am not so if ya got any ideas >> let me know. >Look at the pictures I just posted to alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean >newsgroup of the Amel Sharki 41 ketch. There's a gearbox at the bottom [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >old boy can haul the main in and out in any point of sail, even >backwards! >See how the edges of the slot are nicely rounded into the round interior of >the mast so's not to catch the fabric of the sail draging across >it....Unlike that damned stupid rubber slot in a Beneteau that guarantees >any little fold in the sail will surely SEIZE in the tiny slot. >The only problem we've encountered with the Amel's furling is outhauling >too hard bends the 2" diameter long furling rod into the slot. Once you >get the hang of GENTLY pulling on the outhaul while furling it into the >mast, it's really easy. The roughest part is being thrown about trying to >get TO the mast in heavy seas...(c; Even if the sail is hard against the >shrouds, it furls right up easily every time....nice and neat. A stormy weather with winds up to 35 - 50 knots, where it is advisary to reef and the GENTLY pull of anything tied to the mainsail are not a very common combination. Unless you have an unstayed mast it is difficult to ignore the friction of the sail against the spreaders and stays whatever slides and other gimmicks you have. I do not think that one has to point directly to the wind as in my experience it is enought to get high enough to ease the pressure of the sail to the spreaders and stays, to get the main reefed. Then if you do not use gimmicks like one line reefs, but have separate lines to clew and tack, you have less friction and you can get your sail to sit properly even when reefed. - Lauri Tarkkonen > Its 2005, why do we still have to do this silly pointing into the wind > to get the main up or down or to reef it. Surely someone could come up > with a way to reef or get the main up or down on any point of sail. I > know most sailors are conservative but I am not so if ya got any ideas > let me know. Well, if you're old enough, you'll remember that this wasn't a problem with many of the old sailing boats. They didn't have mast rails/tracks. The sail on a gaff-rigged boat was secured to the mast by mast hoops and could be dropped without having to point into the wind. ron > Its 2005, why do we still have to do this silly pointing into the wind > to get the main up or down or to reef it. Surely someone could come up > with a way to reef or get the main up or down on any point of sail. I > know most sailors are conservative but I am not so if ya got any ideas > let me know. We can drop our main under most points of sail by centering the boom. It's easier when the wind is forward of the beam, of course. There are other rigs not mentioned so far that would make it possible. One that comes to mind that I've only seen one example of is where the boom and jib are sort of on a turntable. Turning one (big) screw trims both sails. The sails can be head to wind as the boat's running downwind. Seemed like a good idea, but there must be some impracticality to the rig. Someone was experimenting with a wing mounted vertically. Supposedly, the sail could be put into "freewheel" mode and it'd have less drag than a conventional mast & stays. Again, could rotate 360. Again, sounded like a great idea as I've seen how much more efficient a double-surface wing is than a single-skin, but haven't seen it on a boat. I'll add something I'm surprised no one's tried: a double-surface sail. Perhaps two sails in tracks on either side of a rotating mast? Only the leeches would be joined. SignatureJere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ >>Its 2005, why do we still have to do this silly pointing into the wind >>to get the main up or down or to reef it. Surely someone could come up [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > We can drop our main under most points of sail by centering the boom. > It's easier when the wind is forward of the beam, of course. Not when there's a 30 Kt tailwind, you can't! Further more, there ain't no remedy for gravity. We are not so conservative thar such a plan would not be popular, if it were possible. We are likewise not so stupid that we wouldn't have invented such a rig, if it were possible. Oh, actually it is, it's called a kite sail. Pull the centre sheet, and the whole sail looks like an inside out umbrella, then it gets wet, unless you fly it from the masthead. Not the best, from a heel's point of view. Sailing is elemental, and it depends on the mechanics to make it work. Those mechanics make some things easier than others. Even a vertical roller furler on the mast will jam in a big tailwind. The leech, you see, it has a mind of it's own. Only a square rig can be reefed with equal facility on every point of sail. What's the big deal? Head Up to reduce sail. Oh, and always use jibsheets long enough to let the jib flog fully foreward. Then, you can pull it down with a downhaul on a winch, if you must. > There are other rigs not mentioned so far that would make it possible. > One that comes to mind that I've only seen one example of is where the > boom and jib are sort of on a turntable. Turning one (big) screw trims > both sails. The sails can be head to wind as the boat's running > downwind. Seemed like a good idea, but there must be some impracticality > to the rig. No room for shrouds, with this one. > Someone was experimenting with a wing mounted vertically. Supposedly, > the sail could be put into "freewheel" mode and it'd have less drag than [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Perhaps two sails in tracks on either side of a rotating mast? Only the > leeches would be joined. Whaaaaat? An inflatable para sail type rig pops into mind, here. (And an image of Honest John Kerry para sail boarding, which I thought showed him to be much more macho than the burning Shrub) Terry K |
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