 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsBoatsPaddle BoatsSailingCruisingBuildingElectronics Related Topics CarsMotorcyclesMore Topics ... |
Boat Forum / Cruising / November 2005AutoPilot Vs. Furling
On a sailing craft which purchase would be a priority an AutoPilot or a furling (head sail)? And why? Most used boats that come with furling rigs dont include an AP that I have seen. Probably because it is eaiser to sell the AP than remove the furling and replace with a head stay. But there arent that many tiller AP for sale either.... If economically I had a choice between a furling or an AP, I would choose an AP. Considering the useage to be daysails and 2-3 or 4 day excursions. Its alot more energy and time to steer than to change sails. BTW I dont consider a tiller tamer an AP. >On a sailing craft which purchase would be a priority an AutoPilot or >a furling (head sail)? And why? >Most used boats that come with furling rigs dont include an AP that I >have seen. Probably because it is eaiser to sell the AP than remove >the furling and replace with a head stay. But there arent that many >tiller AP for sale either.... >If economically I had a choice between a furling or an AP, I would >choose an AP. Considering the useage to be daysails and 2-3 or 4 day >excursions. Its alot more energy and time to steer > than to change sails. >BTW I dont consider a tiller tamer an AP. I would choose the autopilot before the furling gear. Then I would choose a proper windwane before the furling gear. The furling gear is a gadget designed to helpo you with a problem that does not exist. In a small boat to hoist and douse the jib is never a problem. (If you have a 60 footer, you do not have to ask whichone yuou can afford. :-).) So the furling gear is helping you for about a couple of minutes in the beginning and the end of the trip, but the autopilot is working for you for hours and hours. - Lauri Tarkkonen > On a sailing craft which purchase would be a priority > an AutoPilot or a furling (head sail)? * * * If [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > energy and time to steer than to change sails. BTW I > dont consider a tiller tamer an AP. Isn't this basically a "chacun a son gôut" kind of Thing depending (as the OP notes) on the particular use and preferences of the sailor in question? Last week-end on the L.I. Sound after a sudden brief but very strong/gusty thunderstorm, I saw one boat being towed after having been dismasted and two others towed with their sails blown out. I concededly am not sure that they didn't have furlers, but, judging by their apparent age and configurations, etc., I speculate that they did not and, anyway, saw that they did not get their sails down (or even reefed) in time and so wonder what their owners would now think about the value to them of the sort of comparative "more energy" and "more . . . time" estimation stated above. Since the OP appears to be referring mostly to day sailing and, hence, by implication, to a comparatively smaller boat than a large racer or cruiser (re. which an autopilot is arguably close to a necessity), even if one also were to hypothestize a comparatively very limited budget, one also might wonder whether the "either/or" choice as posited is realistic in terms of what may be alternatives - e.g., diligent shopping for used equipment in the secondary market[s] (re. which eBay is only one potential source that might come to mind). > On a sailing craft which purchase would be a priority an AutoPilot or > a furling (head sail)? And why? This is sort of like asking: "Shall I drive to work, or take my lunch?", yes? >On a sailing craft which purchase would be a priority an AutoPilot or >a furling (head sail)? And why? How old and fit are you, and what are your local sailing conditions? I rarely think of my AP and the concept of furling in the same frame of mind, but I do use it when I am solo and tweak sails on the foredeck. I also use a tiller tamer clamp thingie when under power to keep the tiller amidships. I use hank-ons because I like to sail fast and high and I like to have options. Also, the exercise doesn't hurt. The downsides include more effort, more sailbags, a wee bit more fuss. The upsides include better and possible safer sailing, cheaper sailing (I buy barely used sails from hotshot racers with slightly bigger boats and have them cut to fit for a small fraction of new price), and probably my sail rotation will last longer than your hypothetical furling sail, at least in the top 20% of their performance ranges. Furling is a convenience and a compromise. When I sail offshore and spend days on the same tack, I won't hesitate to go furling (but not the main!). AP is a convenience, a safety factor when one is solo/tired, and another expensive thing to break. They draw a lot of power and can't steer as well as humans in a fair number of conditions. For "light duty" reaching, they are fine. Wind vanes are great and good in most--not all--conditions. I would use a wind vane for voyaging with an AP for back-up. In voyaging situations, it seems actual human helming is a small percentage of the watch's work, because a well-found boat trimmed properly will tend to steer itself, with a vane or AP doing small corrections. A radar in "guard" mode and a sharp set of eyes for whales and flotsam does the rest. R. >>On a sailing craft which purchase would be a priority an AutoPilot or >>a furling (head sail)? And why? Humm...just found this link: http://com-pacowners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=93 http://faculty.augie.edu/~swart/CP-16/Roller%20Furler.html "PVC Roller Reefing Furler That's right - a Reefable roller furling system made from standard schedule 40 PVC at a cost of under $20!! I wish I could take credit for this design, but the credit belongs to Greg Cowan, owner of Com-Pac 16 Fat Bouy. Specific instructions can be found on the Com-Pac Owners Association website (http://www.com-pacowners.com/). Improvising on some of the modifications made to this system by others, I came up with a different design for the furler spool. I use two 4 inch round electrical box covers with 1/2" NPT hole in the middle. The shaft of the spool is made out of a 1/2" NPTx3" pipe nipple. When threaded through the holes in the round plates, the nipple extends far enough through the plate to attach a 1/2" PVC thread-to-coupler on top and a 1/2" PVC threaded cap on the bottom. The furling system rests on a stainless steel washer and cable stop, which in turn rest on top of the forestay turnbuckel. " "The system works extremely well under sail. As you can see here, as long as you pay careful attention to the distance between jib hanks when you build the furling tube, the foresail can be tensioned top and bottom so that its luff doesn't scallop. The genoa can be furled in or out, or reefed to reduce foresail area. I also built a set of "twing" lines to ajust the lead angle of the genoa sheet depending on wind speed and size of the reefed foresail. As you can see here, the twing lines run through the jib cam-cleat (forward) and the genoa cam-cleat (aft). The block used to lead the geona sheet can then be adjusted fore or aft in order to give the genoa the proper sail shape - similar to a genoa track, but without having to drill holes and mount hardware on the coamings of my boat. " >>>On a sailing craft which purchase would be a priority an AutoPilot or >>>a furling (head sail)? And why? >>> >Humm...just found this link: Here is an even better link to a DYI self built Furling from a guy in Turkey http://abone.superonline.com/~h.atinc/rollereng.htm Hello, I promised to explain how to build a roller. Only now I found time for that. I will provide the general information and the rest can be seen in the detailed drawing which I made (click for hand drawing or for a CAD schematic). The main material of the system is stainless steel. You will be able to find almost completely ready parts at junk yards. Excellent CAD drawings > On a sailing craft which purchase would be a priority an AutoPilot or > a furling (head sail)? And why? "Furler" I donno. Roller reefing, absulutely (on the headsail at least). A properly-balanced sailboat under sail doesn't really need autohelm anyway: I've sailed across Georgia Strait and never touched the helm. Having roller reefing allows you to reef the headsail without having to go forward. Lloyd Sumpter "Far Cove" Catalina 36 >> On a sailing craft which purchase would be a priority an AutoPilot or >> a furling (head sail)? And why? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >roller reefing allows you to reef the headsail without having to go >forward. >Lloyd Sumpter >"Far Cove" Catalina 36 I would beg to differ, an autopilot is something that you can use for most of your time afloat, the roller of the headsail is needed only for a couple of minutes when you hoist and take your headsail down. If you are interested in sailing then a partly rolled headsail is not a satisfactory solution. - Lauri Tarkkonen > >> On a sailing craft which purchase would be a priority an AutoPilot or > >> a furling (head sail)? And why? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > - Lauri Tarkkonen I have both RF and AP on my 28' S2 and I bought the AP many yrs ago but the RF just last year. It is my experience that the RF is used far more than the AP and greatly increases the amount that I actually sail because it can be unfurled easily when you get a light breeze and easily furled when the wind dies. Sailing on close quarters where you have to drop the jib a lot, say the ICW, the RF means you will sail much more of the time because dropping the head sail every time you go under a bridge is a pain whereas the RF is a breeze. For short or single handed sailing, the RF means not going forward to deal with a headsail so you can stay and steer while furling or unfurling the headsail. I believe the RF will greatly improve your sailing experience. Under these conditions, I also consider the RF to be a safety enhancement. I can definitively say that RF has increased the quantity and quality of my sailing. The AP is very nice, but not essential for most coastal cruising. On a recent 30 hour sail across the Gulf of Mexico (only about 130 miles), we had 3 people aboard and rarely used the AP although we did use it some. For shorter distances, you might like the feedback of using the tiller. I have to admit, for those long hours of motoring when there is little or no wind, the AP is nice. Note that it is also possible to rig up a "self tending tiller arrangement" with bungees and line that will keep you on a specific course with respect to the wind. In short, if I was short of funds and had to make a choice, I'd go with the RF and rig up a self tending device for the tiller. With out question, roller furling for the head sail. You will be on duty at the helm anyway...though very nice, an Autohelm is not strictly necessary, though might seem so on a long passage. I'm just thinking of those nights at the helm with most of the crew sleeping, squally blowing in an seas breaking over the front of your boat, and flowing down your lee deck. May not be the time you would feel like strolling to the foredeck to shorten sail. Glenn. s/v Seawing www.seawing.net > > >> On a sailing craft which purchase would be a priority an AutoPilot or > > >> a furling (head sail)? And why? [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > In short, if I was short of funds and had to make a choice, I'd go with > the RF and rig up a self tending device for the tiller. >>>On a sailing craft which purchase would be a priority an AutoPilot or >>>a furling (head sail)? And why? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > - Lauri Tarkkonen Interesting quesyion. If you are daysailing and coastal cruising I would think the roller furling is probably a better value. If you are voyaging and sailing shorthanded 24/7 then the auto-piot is probably better value. In my opinion! >I would beg to differ, an autopilot is something that you can use for >most of your time afloat, I'm inclined to agree. I do a lot of single-handing, and the AP is a godsend. The Auto pilot requires more than the price for the unit itself. Power generation and power storage have to be increased. So if the boat isnt already set up with good power, you will need to get the check book out again. Besides, if youre sailing short handed its useful. But most of the time there is someone on board to take the helm. DP >> On a sailing craft which purchase would be a priority an AutoPilot or >> a furling (head sail)? And why? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Lloyd Sumpter > "Far Cove" Catalina 36 > The Auto pilot requires more than the price for the unit itself. Power > generation and power storage have to be increased. So if the boat isnt [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Besides, if youre sailing short handed its useful. But most of the time > there is someone on board to take the helm. ...and, you need a sharp watchman anyway. Terry K > DP > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >>Lloyd Sumpter >>"Far Cove" Catalina 36 >> The Auto pilot requires more than the price for the unit itself. Power >> generation and power storage have to be increased. So if the boat isnt [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Terry K SNip yep you're right. I reckon he should get the furler DP The question is better answered if we know what type of use you are doing with your sailboat: daysailing, week end, long distance, the length of time and the frequency of use. Ideally you should have both the AP and the jib roller Furler As for me the orders of priority are: 1) husky boat fenders, for when you want to dock in against concrete Warf's and locks. 2) AP when you are just you and your wife, more time to spent on vigil, charting and cooking. Unless you are going upwind once your sails are up and trimmed your boat is on course. When the weather get rough you balance your boat with the proper sail and trim. When you have to lower your sails, untangled and free your furler the AP is your third hand. 3) Radar and GPS and back up, depending on your area, in land or on a lake these are not a priority. 4) Dodger and Bimini, when you spent lots of time on the water it is wise to protect your skin against sun damages 5) Roller furlers for the jib and main, when you no longer can get in front to change sails drop the main and bag them, it is safer to have a good furling system. Conversely if your furler get tangled or jammed and you are alone your AP will serve you well. Now days newer sailboats are all coming equipped with furlers and many have AP, dodger and bimini. As Dennis Marier's post makes clear, priorities differ. Those of us who live where it is hot know that a Bimini comes long before any of the other desired items, even before sails. Without a Bimini, you will not sail long in the heat and all other gear will then be useless. So, consider that your priorities might differ from what we have said. > As Dennis Marier's post makes clear, priorities differ. Those of us > who live where it is hot know that a Bimini comes long before any of > the other desired items, even before sails. Without a Bimini, you will > not sail long in the heat and all other gear will then be useless. So, > consider that your priorities might differ from what we have said. That's for sure. Even though the Mirage 33 I crewed on for 5 years came with a Bimini, I didn't see it used once. On the otherhand, the Dodger was a popular item on cold blustery days when the most forward seats in the cockpit were highly valued. Your are probably right a bimini is not need it for when you sail a few hour per week and racing on Thursday evening. However, when you are always on your boat and are exposed to the sun 8 to 10 hours every day the situation is not the same. Now I know a little better and I use sun blocker. I hate this greasy stuff and I do not have it on my face all the time. Unless you use white titanium the sun block will only protect you for about 15 to 30 minutes (according to my dermatologist). Many of his patients are saying how come I end up with skin cancer I have been using sun screen and blockers all my life. > > As Dennis Marier's post makes clear, priorities differ. Those of us > > who live where it is hot know that a Bimini comes long before any of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > was a popular item on cold blustery days when the most forward seats in > the cockpit were highly valued. > As Dennis Marier's post makes clear, priorities differ. Those of us > who live where it is hot know that a Bimini comes long before any of > the other desired items, even before sails. Without a Bimini, you will > not sail long in the heat and all other gear will then be useless. So, > consider that your priorities might differ from what we have said. Come to Canada to sail! Spend summer here, go home for winter. You would qualify as a Canada goose, as we do for snow bird. Terry K >>>The Auto pilot requires more than the price for the unit itself. Power >>>generation and power storage have to be increased. So if the boat isnt [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > DP I maintain that a pull down line on the jib head, led aft to the cockpit via a small block at the forepeak, is a better answer overall. Pull jib down, sieze up downhaul, set main reef, rehoist jib is a very safe manouver. It should also be easy for any fit sailor. No boat should be sailing without consideration for crew fitness. A well designed rig near the extreme of conditions will enable you to sail well under a main trysail alone. If not, you should be trailing warps or a drogue under bare poles, and warming up a can of beans under your armpit, battened down, on deck or below. A bare forestay is better in a blow than a baggy wrinkled genny forcing your head downwind. Terry K >>>> The Auto pilot requires more than the price for the unit itself. >>>> Power generation and power storage have to be increased. So if the [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Terry K I agree. >>>>The Auto pilot requires more than the price for the unit itself. Power >>>>generation and power storage have to be increased. So if the boat isnt [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Terry K All this is relevant to where and when the boat is sailed.. I missed the initial post. But if the guy is bay sailing a furler is perfect. Understand what you are saying if he is a passage maker. Though these days even the purest of the purists are starting to furl. DP |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.