With my VHF tranmitting at 25 watts, I can easily reach out from one
side of Chesapeake Bay to the other in most places.
At the 1 watt setting, who knows?
For the sake of discussions, let's say on a clear day from my VHF
antenna, which is approximately 14' above the waterline, a 25 watt
transmission reaches someone 12 miles away with a similar antenna height.
Is there a way to figure how far a 1 watt setting will reach with the
same equipment?

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Don White - 16 Sep 2005 22:12 GMT
> With my VHF tranmitting at 25 watts, I can easily reach out from one
> side of Chesapeake Bay to the other in most places.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Is there a way to figure how far a 1 watt setting will reach with the
> same equipment?
Don't know how to calculate that...but in our VHF course we were advised
to use the 1 watt when in a small harbour or at an anchorage. The idea
was that 25 watt was overkill in this situation and would add to the
clutter for people a fair distance away.
Dry - 16 Sep 2005 22:44 GMT
> > With my VHF tranmitting at 25 watts, I can easily reach out from one
> > side of Chesapeake Bay to the other in most places.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> was that 25 watt was overkill in this situation and would add to the
> clutter for people a fair distance away.
Crap clutter Don where in the Harbor, as many wats as you want. Harry
your 1 watt is good for boats that are around you and probably not much
more, the 25 will almost get you to Washington and the Bush minions.
dbohara@mindspring.com - 17 Sep 2005 00:47 GMT
Assuming the simplest model (probably wrong), the antenna height
shouldnt matter cuz VHF is s'posed to be line of sight but assume it
is. So you use 1/r^2 and get that 1 watt should reach 1/5 as far as 25
watts. This is prob close enough but I bet there's some refraction and
bending of the pattern 'n such along the earths curve that might depend
on total power (I am not sure how it would depend on power though).
Doug Dotson - 22 Sep 2005 22:02 GMT
>> With my VHF tranmitting at 25 watts, I can easily reach out from one side
>> of Chesapeake Bay to the other in most places.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> that 25 watt was overkill in this situation and would add to the clutter
> for people a fair distance away.
That is actually the law.
Gary G - 17 Sep 2005 01:37 GMT
>With my VHF tranmitting at 25 watts, I can easily reach out from one
>side of Chesapeake Bay to the other in most places.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>Is there a way to figure how far a 1 watt setting will reach with the
>same equipment?
No.
The problems are ERP (effective radiated power), environmental
conditions and physical conditions. ERP is based on power to the
antenna and then its actual dB gain. So, if you have a 1W transmitter
with no antenna attached, your ERP is probably going to be near zero.
Put on a duck stick and you might get +3DbM. Get a long duck and it
might be +6DbM. Energy falls off with the square of the distance. So
doubling the power won't get you twice as far. All other things being
constant.
Environmental conditions can mess up all communications below 350MHz.
Yes, it can mess up those above but higher frequencies are more line
of sight. HF is dependent on the ionisphere for reflectance around
the diameter of the Earth. VHF does not do this very well. UHF
doesn't either.
You might easily get four NM on one day and 2 NM on another.
Overall, it good that the makers include different power settings.
N6OIJ
Gary Gaugler, Ph.D.
Microtechnics, Inc.
Granite Bay, CA 95746
916.791.8191
gary@microtechnics dot com
dbohara@mindspring.com - 17 Sep 2005 02:12 GMT
He did IMPLY that all conditions were equal in the case of 1 watt and
the case of 25 watts. Given that, all thats left is the old 1/r^2
which means that 1 watt gives 1/5 the distance of 25 watts.
Jim Richardson - 17 Sep 2005 09:03 GMT
> He did IMPLY that all conditions were equal in the case of 1 watt and
> the case of 25 watts. Given that, all thats left is the old 1/r^2
> which means that 1 watt gives 1/5 the distance of 25 watts.
There are some other practical considerations, mostly minimum
sensitivity of the receiver, and it's noise floor, and power losses in
antennas, which vary non-linearly with power.

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Chaos, panic, & disorder - my work here is done
Rob - 18 Sep 2005 00:23 GMT
> He did IMPLY that all conditions were equal in the case of 1 watt and
> the case of 25 watts. Given that, all thats left is the old 1/r^2
> which means that 1 watt gives 1/5 the distance of 25 watts.
Not necessarily. With my 2 m amateur radio I could transmit 250 miles on 5
watts from a mountain. Since the main problem is line of sight versus power
having 25 times the power does not mean five times the distance. With 5
watts I can regularly hit some repeaters from 50 miles away. When I go up to
50 watts I only get at best a 5 mile or 10 % increase in range. The square
root of ten is about 3.1 so I should get 150 miles but I never do. There are
more factors than root of power increase as the earth is not flat.
Robert
va3ilw
Midnight Sun.
Harry Krause - 18 Sep 2005 03:43 GMT
>> He did IMPLY that all conditions were equal in the case of 1 watt and
>> the case of 25 watts. Given that, all thats left is the old 1/r^2
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> va3ilw
> Midnight Sun.
The opportunities for testing range are pretty limited on Chesapeake
Bay, since so few boaters will respond to calls for a radio check. I
always try to respond, telling the "caller" my approximate location so
he/she gets some idea of how is signal is carrying. But I hear lots of
calls with never a response. It was a lot different in NE Florida, where
I used to live. There was lots of on-topic chatter on the appropriate
VHF channels, and lots of radio check requests and responses. Part of
the problem is that I'm usually in the less crowded areas of the Bay. I
stay away from Annapolis for the most part.

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Larry - 17 Sep 2005 02:46 GMT
> Is there a way to figure how far a 1 watt setting will reach with the
> same equipment?
Sometimes 1 watt will get you 10 miles. It depends a LOT on the condition
of your antenna system and the other guy's corroded up old piece of crap
with the rotten coax, seized connectors, all full of rain/seawater in the
bilge hooked up, eventually after those 3 kinks where he screwed the
wallboard in too hard, to that corroded up old Standard he moved over from
his center console fishing boat.
Because his radio system hasn't been properly maintained or tested in
years, and he's too naive to know any better or care, better leave it on 25
watts and hope he hears you through the noise of his buzzing inverter and
those loose, corroded connections in the 12V breaker panel that never got
cleaned, either.
Assume the worst, run the power, then after you've gotten him to respond,
switch power levels to 1W and see if he still responds or starts telling
you you're noisy. Of course, this all assumes he can hear you over
Smiley's Marina and Raw Bar running 25 watts from Smiley's 70' tower over
the office talking to the boat on his gas dock that's so close he can read
the date on the DNR license tag, jamming boat radios for 40 miles in all
directions....(sigh)

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Larry
johnhh - 17 Sep 2005 03:04 GMT
2.4 miles
> With my VHF tranmitting at 25 watts, I can easily reach out from one side
> of Chesapeake Bay to the other in most places.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Is there a way to figure how far a 1 watt setting will reach with the same
> equipment?
Harry Krause - 17 Sep 2005 03:40 GMT
> 2.4 miles
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>> Is there a way to figure how far a 1 watt setting will reach with the same
>> equipment?
Thanks for all the answers.
Jim Richardson - 17 Sep 2005 09:00 GMT
> With my VHF tranmitting at 25 watts, I can easily reach out from one
> side of Chesapeake Bay to the other in most places.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Is there a way to figure how far a 1 watt setting will reach with the
> same equipment?
If you assume that conditions are identical (like you are switching
between 1W and 25W settings, rather than on different days), and that
the reciever you are being picked up on, has a sufficient noise floor
and min sig sensetivity, then it's a pretty simple inverse square. There
are some other issues, like very low signal losses in antennas, which
don't scale linearly with power, but as a rough guess, you can probably
reach about 1/8th the distance, under ideal circumstances.

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Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
The laws of physics are not subject to judicial review.
johnhh - 17 Sep 2005 10:59 GMT
25/d1^2 = 1/d2^2
d1 = 12 so d1^2 = 144
25/144 = 1/d2^2
144/25 = d2^2
d2 = 2.4
>> With my VHF tranmitting at 25 watts, I can easily reach out from one
>> side of Chesapeake Bay to the other in most places.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> don't scale linearly with power, but as a rough guess, you can probably
> reach about 1/8th the distance, under ideal circumstances.
Jere Lull - 18 Sep 2005 08:48 GMT
> With my VHF tranmitting at 25 watts, I can easily reach out from one
> side of Chesapeake Bay to the other in most places.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Is there a way to figure how far a 1 watt setting will reach with the
> same equipment?
It's entirely dependent on the noise on the channel and each boat's
quality of setup. Working with friends on an unusual channel at 1w, we
reliably communicated from HdeG to Georgetown on the Sassafras. They had
a 6db antenna at deck level, ours is 3db 40 feet up. There was some
terrain between us, so we proved that VHF is not strictly line of sight.

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Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/
Doug Dotson - 22 Sep 2005 22:13 GMT
>> With my VHF tranmitting at 25 watts, I can easily reach out from one
>> side of Chesapeake Bay to the other in most places.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> a 6db antenna at deck level, ours is 3db 40 feet up. There was some
> terrain between us, so we proved that VHF is not strictly line of sight.
It's been proved many times and has never been considered to be strictly
line of sight.
Boots - 28 Sep 2005 19:44 GMT
With that set up you should get out more than 12 miles???
Capt. Boots
> In article <3p0p2uF82e4uU1@individual.net>,
> Harry Krause <harry.krause@gmail.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> a 6db antenna at deck level, ours is 3db 40 feet up. There was some
> terrain between us, so we proved that VHF is not strictly line of sight.
It's been proved many times and has never been considered to
be strictly
line of sight.
> --
> Jere Lull
> Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
> Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
> Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/
boatingaz - 22 Sep 2005 20:28 GMT
Why do you have to interject your political views with every post? The
topic of this group should be neutral to politics in most cases. But
for some reason you feel you must make your opinions known to the world
how you feel about President Bush. Please tone it down or take it to
an appropriate group.
-Rob