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Boat Forum / Cruising / October 2005Mast Repair
While recently lowering my mast it fell forwards partially pulling the rivets out where the mast joins the bottom bracket. I think that I have two options to repair this. One is to drilll out the rivets cut off the botton 1cm ,or so, of the mast to a point just above the old rivets & redrill & rivet. This will mean putting a block under the tabernackle so that the stay/shrouds can remain the same length. Option two is to get the bottom of the mast ally welded to repair the damage & also attatch the bottom of the mast to the ally bracket. Does anyone have views on the suitability of both repairs? The second is the easier option as it will be done proffesionally. >While recently lowering my mast it fell forwards partially pulling the >rivets out where the mast joins the bottom bracket. I think that I have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Does anyone have views on the suitability of both repairs? The second >is the easier option as it will be done proffesionally. Welding on an alu mast affects the strength of the material. I've never seen a mast with anything welded on it. It is just the extruded alu profile and everything else is mounted ss. But I'm no expert so you could specifically ask an expert if I'm right. Ask a rigger in stead of a welder. My 2 cts is: when your shroud-tensioners can handle the difference in length I'd use the first method you described. When you use ss rivets you should use Duralac or some other zinc-chromate paste. You could also use monel rivets, they are less prone to galvanic corrosion. If your tensioners can't handle it, I'd look further to avoid welding. Recent years a lot of heavy duty ways of connecting alu have been introduced. Maybe you could try http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rebuiltaluminumboat/ These guys are experienced in this field and are always willing to help. HTH, Len, S/v Present Look up. Is your mast head formed by welding pieces of aluminum together? Mine is and so are all I remember. > >While recently lowering my mast it fell forwards partially pulling the > >rivets out where the mast joins the bottom bracket. I think that I have [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Len, > S/v Present My mast has all kinds of fittings welded to it. Spreader brackets, winch pads, masthead brackets, etc. >>While recently lowering my mast it fell forwards partially pulling the >>rivets out where the mast joins the bottom bracket. I think that I have [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Len, > S/v Present Odd, on every mast I see here all fittings are ss and bolted on. Perhaps it's cause you ammies invented Tungsten Inert Gas welding. I happen to know that came to Europe many years later. LOL Len S/v Present >My mast has all kinds of fittings welded to it. Spreader brackets, winch >pads, masthead brackets, etc. >Odd, on every mast I see here all fittings are ss and bolted on. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>My mast has all kinds of fittings welded to it. Spreader brackets, winch >>pads, masthead brackets, etc. Meredith at Northrup invented TIG in 1940, but Linde picked up the patents and turned it from Heliarc to the tig we know. It echoed one of the earliest methods, which used a graphite rod initially. Brian Whatcott Len,<lendenbesten@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote: >>Odd, on every mast I see here all fittings are ss and bolted on. >>Perhaps it's cause you ammies invented Tungsten Inert Gas welding. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >It echoed one of the earliest methods, which used a graphite rod >initially. Hi Brian, thanks for making that one complete...:) I just completed a TIG-welding course so I can do virtually all work on board myself. Now I'm looking for a decent ac/dc tig-machine for ss and alu that will work on a 220v, 6kva diesel-generator. Could you name a few url's in the us? Here in the Netherlands I am facing 3,500 to 4,000 euro's. TIA, Len > Len,<lendenbesten@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote: >>>Odd, on every mast I see here all fittings are ss and bolted on. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > facing 3,500 to 4,000 euro's. > TIA, Len Suggest you try eBay. A friend of mine picked up a TIG for $US400. >Len,<lendenbesten@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote: >>>Odd, on every mast I see here all fittings are ss and bolted on. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >facing 3,500 to 4,000 euro's. >TIA, Len Two that come to mind are the Lincoln V205-T Starts at $2700 plus a few accessories or the Miller Sncrowave 250 that starts round $2500 Could browse http://www.welders-direct.com ?? Brian W >Two that come to mind are the Lincoln V205-T Starts at $2700 plus a >few accessories or the Miller Sncrowave 250 that starts round $2500 >Could browse http://www.welders-direct.com ?? I will, thanks Len. Bigger rivets? SS screws? Sounds like pretty minor damage. I wouldn't cut the mast. > While recently lowering my mast it fell forwards partially pulling the > rivets out where the mast joins the bottom bracket. I think that I have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Does anyone have views on the suitability of both repairs? The second > is the easier option as it will be done proffesionally. > Bigger rivets? SS screws? Sounds like pretty minor damage. I wouldn't cut > the mast. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >>Does anyone have views on the suitability of both repairs? The second >>is the easier option as it will be done proffesionally. I've got a minor repair to make also. The PO of my sailboat must have used steel rivets to hold the bailer (re boom vang) to my mast. The mast was dented right at that point also. The rigger at a local marine supply store suggested I get a couple of stainless steel bolts long enough to go through the mast, rather than try to re-rivet elongated holes. ( for me, about 2&3/4" or 3" length should do) Sound like they must have been big rivets? When I fitted a new used boom to "Songlines" I got bolts long enough to go all the way through (bail and boom) and used nylon washers to keep from scuffing up my paint job. > > Bigger rivets? SS screws? Sounds like pretty minor damage. I wouldn't cut > > the mast. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > enough to go through the mast, rather than try to re-rivet elongated > holes. ( for me, about 2&3/4" or 3" length should do) > While recently lowering my mast it fell forwards partially pulling the > rivets out where the mast joins the bottom bracket. I think that I have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Does anyone have views on the suitability of both repairs? The second > is the easier option as it will be done proffesionally. Not sure what you mean by "ally welded". Welding does affect the strength of aluminum. If your plan is to take a piece of identical extrusion, and cut it so that it can be placed inside the mast at the point of failure with the surfaces matching up exactly, then that will provide sufficient strength although a welder may object to having to put a bead up inside the thing. Then you could it back in the same bracket with the poprivets or small bolts. I think this is pretty close to what you're calling option two? It's the class way to go, a bit more expesnive of course but plenty strong. Fresh Breezes- Doug King I've taken pics of the damage, which I suspect is minor(?). However I don't know how to publish the pics so I'm going to need help on this one too! >I've taken pics of the damage, which I suspect is minor(?). However I >don't know how to publish the pics so I'm going to need help on this >one too! Just relax, we'll help you all the way.... :) There are several places where you're permitted gB's of storage for free. I use a Yahoo-account so I can store photo's on the Yahoo-server. I can choose between keeping photo's private and making them accessible for others. Go to www.yahoo.com and click on photo's. After you've uploaded the picture(s) you can make the url known here. Len. Hm, a bit of a brain fart here... You'll have to invite people to look at yr albums. Sorry, it is a bit more complicated... but it may still work if you know the email-address's of the persons who are willing to help you by looking at the photo ....:) Len. >I've taken pics of the damage, which I suspect is minor(?). However I >don't know how to publish the pics so I'm going to need help on this >one too! We've been using the newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean If you get that group you could post your pictures there and let us know about it. Mark E. Williams >We've been using the newsgroup >alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean >If you get that group you could post your pictures there and let us >know about it. >Mark E. Williams Mark, Which newsserver do yo use to reach that group? Mine doesn't give access to the alt.binaries-groups and nor does google-groups. Thanks, Len. >>We've been using the newsgroup >>alt.binaries.pictures.sports.ocean [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >google-groups. >Thanks, Len. I use Cox for groups primarily. They are my ISP. I also use OnlyNews for fills but they are a pay newsserver. Mark E. Williams What size rivets? Are the holes too messed up to drill out the rivets and redrill to a larger size, either larger rivets or bolts? SBV > While recently lowering my mast it fell forwards partially pulling the > rivets out where the mast joins the bottom bracket. I think that I have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Does anyone have views on the suitability of both repairs? The second > is the easier option as it will be done proffesionally. I've managed to load two pics of the damaged area at http://groups.msn.com/LysanderSailer/mastrepair.msnw?Page=Last Graeme All I got was this; Hmmm, We Can't Find that Page... The page you're looking for might have been moved or deleted. Or, perhaps the Web address is misspelled? > I've managed to load two pics of the damaged area at > > http://groups.msn.com/LysanderSailer/mastrepair.msnw?Page=Last > > Graeme >All I got was this; > >Hmmm, We Can't Find that Page... > >The page you're looking for might have been moved or deleted. Or, >perhaps the Web address is misspelled? It worked fine for me... The pictures were a bit blurred but it seems the part that is connected (mastfoot?) could be drilled loose and you could a) use slightly bigger (thicker) rivets on the old places and b) drill a new hole next to the one ripped open. In the yahoo group I mentioned earlier there is a discussion going on about modern powerful adhesives. Maybe you can overcome the "fear for the unknown" that I feel too to use this product on a critical spot. I copied the last message. source: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rebuiltaluminumboat/ Luck, Len S/v Present ---------------------------------------- Hello John, I sell Body Shop Supplies, and I know of a Very Good Adhesive you can use to bond ANY thing together with. The part number is 08115 Panel Bonding Adhesive it's about $32.00 , you have to have the gun to use this product. Many different makers of this gun are out there.The cheepest gun I know of is about $40.00 made by Shopware www.shopwareinc.net . 08115 is a two part adhhesive that is mixed by placing in the gun, kinda like a caulking gun. 3M also makes some other great adhesives in this same line "Automix". 08115 has a work time of 90 minutes, Handling time of 4 hours, and cure time of 24 hours. All times can be accelerrated with heat. We use this product in place of welding now days. Scary to think your car is glued together........ Most new cars have plastic or aluminum or very thin sheet metal for fenders and doors skins. I glued a cow skill to the side of the barn 5 years ago and you can hang off of it if you wanted to. Hope this helps. Tod --------------------------------------------- > It worked fine for me... > The pictures were a bit blurred but it seems the part that is > connected (mastfoot?) could be drilled loose and you could a) use > slightly bigger (thicker) rivets on the old places and b) drill a new > hole next to the one ripped open. After looking at the damage, I'd be concerned about the end of the mast opening up slightly and coming off the step on the edge of the mast foot casting. If this starts to happen, total failure could occur in a very short time with the mast wall peeling back as it is forced over the foot like peeling a banana. How far it will go and is the rig going to stay up are the critical questions. I'd NOT be happy with just re-riviting it. You cannot effectively weld many grades of cast aluminium. If you are going to have this welded, ONLY GET THE CRACKS WELDED. The foot casting should still be fitted with rivits. The damaged area should be sleeved with a rivited on sheet of aluminium on the outside extending a couple of inches up the mast and the new holes for the foot drilled through this and the mast wall. This will prevent it spreading as described above. To shape aluminium sheet to fit, it will have to be annealed. Ideally it would be heat treated to harden it before riviting it in place but some alloys age harden to a fair extent at room temperature. Best talk to a rigger. If you DIY this, you NEED to use Duralac on the rivits and all surfaces in contact unless you are using a structural adhesive. If you have enough thread left on your turnbuckles to take up half an inch and still have plenty of range for adjustment, cut off the damage and have done with it. I would only raise the tabernackle as a last resort.  SignatureIan Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED) ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk [at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & >32K emails --> NUL: 'Stingo' Albacore #1554 - 15' Early 60's, Uffa Fox designed, All varnished hot moulded wooden racing dinghy. >I've managed to load two pics of the damaged area at > >http://groups.msn.com/LysanderSailer/mastrepair.msnw?Page=Last > >Graeme When it comes to photography: don't give up your day job! The damage is not overwhelming. The forces are mostly in compression, so it would probably survive a while as is. But it would be nice to make it good, I know. Show it to a TIG welder who knows what he is doing. They can make it a work of art. If it is heat treated section, the weld zone would not be a concern for the compression stress. Brian Whatcott Altus OK |
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