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Boat Forum / Cruising / July 2008Anchor watches (re my March 14th adventures)
Hi, Y'all, So... We're at anchor, with the toplight lit and the cockpit lit up, and various of our redlighting below illuminating (if you're close enough to see them) the windows in very faint red. We're not in an anchorage, designated or not, but we're lit according to the regs, along with other lighting to make us more visible. We should be standing watch based on all the responses to my last log posting. Oh, ya, let's just add in that we're dragging slightly, so our position isn't constant, but there's nothing we can run into, and we are confident in the bottom such that we know we won't move anywhere fast, nor dangerously, so we don't bother with finding a more suitable bottom - this one just lets us move a bit - to make us not move at all. We should have constant watch standers, right? Or, we could be hove to with handkerchiefs of sail up, anchor lights lit, etc., as above, and drifting slightly in an area where we can't run into anything, and there's no traffic due to the area... You'll see, on review, that such was the case which generated all the bonhomie in response to my log, If we're anywhere there's traffic, or we're under way, we have 24/7 watch, regardless of where we are, or how deep it is...  SignatureL8R Skip, installing a few replacement electronics and rewiring all the computer related gear to eliminate 120VAC in favor of 12 (and some 5)VDC, still heading to Maine in a week or so, weather and gear permitting, enjoying the 20A solar and 15A wind in Fernandina Beach all the while under Shadetree 15* temp reductions... Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah) >Hi, Y'all, > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >Or, we could be hove to with handkerchiefs of sail up, anchor lights >lit, etc., as above, and drifting slightly Just kidding? "When we arose to a brilliant day, later, we saw that we'd drifted nearly 20 miles while hove to" in an area where we can't >run into anything, and there's no traffic due to the area... You'll >see, on review, that such was the case which generated all the >bonhomie in response to my log, > >If we're anywhere there's traffic, or we're under way, we have 24/7 >watch, regardless of where we are, or how deep it is... > Just kidding? > > "When we arose to a brilliant day, later, we saw that we'd drifted > nearly 20 miles while hove to" at something under 2k, yes :{)) SignatureL8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah) >> Just kidding? >> >> "When we arose to a brilliant day, later, we saw that we'd drifted >> nearly 20 miles while hove to" > >at something under 2k, yes :{)) I feel that few of your sailing innovations, such as sleep-sailing, sailing downwind in a blow with main sheeted tight, or going to bed for the night leaving your wife on the helm until she is ready to drop or hits something, will catch on here in Wales. Hi Skip, happy 4th of July. You understand that when you're hove to you must show running lights and keep a proper watch. I presume you recently got better than 90% correct on your rules test so I don't have to cite chapter and verse to you. Showing an anchor light and going to bed was illegal when, by your own testimony, you were traveling about 3 knots under sail. That's it. Period, quit, you're done. Now, it seems to me that you are arguing that breaking the law in your case was a mere technicality because you weren't "anywhere there's traffic". But, how do you know there was no traffic? You were asleep and you traveled 20 miles in near shore waters. Do you have some kind of super powers or are you just rationalizing? Please admit, at least to yourself, that you made a mistake. I'm happy you got away with it, but be smart and don't do it again. -- Tom. > Hi Skip, happy 4th of July. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > -- Tom. Like I've said repeatedly, Skippy is a fool and an accident waiting to happen. He's going to come to grief and probably soon. Mark my words. Skippy's just too stupid to be a sailor. He's doesn't take any of it seriously. To him it's all some kind of a game about which he can write long boring articles. He derives no real pleasure from sailing but he uses sailing to get attention. He will come to grief and soon. Mark my words. And one more thing, when he does come to grief, I say good riddance to him. He's been advised and warned many times. His actions and ways and means give sailing a bad name and adversely influence potential sailors who might think Skippy's way is the right way. Wilbur Hubbard >> Hi Skip, happy 4th of July. >> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >Wilbur Hubbard Skip is sailing. Wilbur is sitting home. Who is the Sailor; who is the Fool? A fool who knows his foolishness is wise at least to that extent, but a fool who thinks himself wise is a fool indeed. > Skip is sailing. Wilbur is sitting home. Who is the Sailor; who is the > Fool? By your very own definition - YOU ARE! Sitting at home pecking away at he keyboard hanging on my every word. Ha ha ha! You are owned. (Lawdy, but this guy is so easy to slap this slave around. Too easy, as a matter of fact and that's why I ignore most of his drivel.) Wilbur Hubbard >> Skip is sailing. Wilbur is sitting home. Who is the Sailor; who is the >> Fool? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Wilbur Hubbard He's just like a dog, humping on your leg. Kick it away. >> Skip is sailing. Wilbur is sitting home. Who is the Sailor; who is the >> Fool? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Wilbur Hubbard And yet again the wiley wilbur avoids the subject. Why is it that you avoid responding to the statement -- "Skip is sailing Wilbur is at home. Who is the Sailor?" Obviously the answer is not to your liking. A fool who knows his foolishness is wise at least to that extent, but a fool who thinks himself wise is a fool indeed. "Wilbur Hubbard" <wilburhubbard@thefarm.invalid> wrote in message news:486ebad7$0$92712 > He derives no real pleasure from sailing but he uses sailing to get > attention. He will come to grief and soon. Mark my words. As opposed to you? The guy with no boat and no sailing activity at all? > And one more thing, when he does come to grief, I say good riddance to > him. I'm sure the sentiment is exactly the same toward your pathetic a.s. >"Wilbur Hubbard" <wilburhubbard@thefarm.invalid> wrote in message >news:486ebad7$0$92712 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >I'm sure the sentiment is exactly the same toward your pathetic a.s. Actually Wilbur will never come to grief. At least not in a boat. He is afraid of the water and never goes sailing. A fool who knows his foolishness is wise at least to that extent, but a fool who thinks himself wise is a fool indeed. On Jul 4, 3:53 pm, "tsmw...@gmail.com" <tsmw...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Skip, happy 4th of July. > > You understand that when you're hove to you must show running lights > and keep a proper watch. > Showing an anchor light and going to bed was illegal when, > by your own testimony, you were traveling about 3 knots under sail. > That's it. Period, quit, you're done. > -- Tom. Thank you Tom.................. Bob There are a couple of issues here. First is water depth. If you are in an area shallow enough to anchor, anchored vessels will be one of the things watch keepers on other vessels will be expecting. The large traffic that can't see the mile in front of their bow also isn't likely to be transiting that area. Second is motion. If someone sees and identifies your anchor light, they will then treat you thereafter as a stationary object. If you are hove to and moving 3 - 4 knots, the unexpected motion could upset their calculations about passing you safely. If you are lit as if at anchor in 400 feet of water and clearly not anchored, they other vessel isn't going to know what to make of you. If anchored in a high traffic area in one of those places where the shallow water extends far out and anchoring would not be common, an anchor watch is not a bad idea. Anchoring is different from being hove to. That's why there are different lights for it. You might consider a set of battery powered "Restricted in Ability to Maneuver" lights to put up when hove to since it would take you longer than normal to get on to a collision avoidance course. There should be a watch when hove to. -- Roger Long > There are a couple of issues here. > > First is water depth. If you are in an area shallow enough to anchor, > anchored vessels will be one of the things watch keepers on other vessels > will be expecting. The large traffic that can't see the mile in front of > their bow also isn't likely to be transiting that area. In New England this is usually true, but down south there are large areas shallower than a typical New England anchorage. In Skip's area, the 3 fathom line can extend out 5 miles from the beach, and inside of course, you'd be hard put to find 10 feet of water anywhere. >> There are a couple of issues here. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >the 3 fathom line can extend out 5 miles from the beach, and inside of >course, you'd be hard put to find 10 feet of water anywhere. My younger son sails in the Corpus Christi area. He has gone aground more than once, almost out of sight of land. Brian W > Hi, Y'all, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > bottom - this one just lets us move a bit - to make us not move at > all. It depends a bit on the location. But, "not in anchorage" and "dragging"? Yup, there should be a watch. Plus, "dragging" means "not attached" so how can you be sure that you won't suddenly let go altogether? OK, if you know its soft mud, maybe its not bad, but even then you could simply set a second Danforth (or Fortress), and if that doesn't stop the the drag, you have a real problem. > We should have constant watch standers, right? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > see, on review, that such was the case which generated all the > bonhomie in response to my log, My jaw dropped when I first read your earlier post (as did my wife's when I told the story), but it seems you dig yourself a deeper hole with every defense. Here you're claiming you don't need a watch because "no traffic is due in the area"! How can you possibly be guaranteed of that, especially near the largest inlet in the area? > If we're anywhere there's traffic, or we're under way, we have 24/7 > watch, regardless of where we are, or how deep it is... Drifting 20 miles while you slept is not "Underway"??? Elsewhere you claimed it was slower than 2 knots, so are you really claiming you all slept for over 10 hours with no one on watch??? I can't imagine getting any sleep in that situation - at the very least I'd be checking the position and horizon every hour or so. But with three adults on board, what's the problem with a watch? And how did you get into this situation? By going out for the day with no plan beyond "we'll just get close to land and toss out the anchor." Never mind that within a few miles of the inlet there's several towns and a number of well known anchorages. But you'd rather risk the lives of your family by making believe that you're exercising "contingency planning." Sorry Skip, this is not normal behavior. Your defense sounds just as lame as your previous claims that all your problems are caused by bad weather forecasts or faulty charts. > > Hi, Y'all, > > So... > > We're at anchor, with the toplight lit and the cockpit lit up, and > > various of our redlighting below illuminating (if you're close enough > > to see them) the windows in very faint red. > Sorry Skip, this is not normal behavior. Your defense sounds just as > lame as your previous claims that all your problems are caused by bad > weather forecasts or faulty charts. Hello Jeff: Thank you for your post. Ive grown weary point out each of his mistakes each ogf which could lead easily to death. Its just a matter of time............ O I forgot. Lydia already nealy got them all killed. I loved her quote about how a their boat sank and she was on watch, "... some how the boat got off course..." and ran on the reef. I gues they still believe it is possible to pilot a boat from their bunk. But.... hey... maybe Lydia is at her best in the bunk and on her back.... IDK Bob. >> > Hi, Y'all, >> > So... [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Bob Wilbur, is that you or has Capt. Neil returned? A fool who knows his foolishness is wise at least to that extent, but a fool who thinks himself wise is a fool indeed. > If we're anywhere there's traffic, or we're under way, we have 24/7 > watch, regardless of where we are, or how deep it is... Whether your anchor drags or not, you are anchored and need to follow protocol for that situation. If you were to heave to, then you are running and should follow all running protocols. Even if you were able to achieve a heave to with zero speed, you'd be 'running'. Standing an anchor watch isn't a regulatory thing but rather a precaution. As a fellow who has done a lot of singlehanding, I promise you that to me, being at anchor is a relief from standing watches. I'd make sure that I was held fast and then go to sleep. I tried setting a GPS alarm, but never could get it to function. Skip, Don't listen to the negative comments, none of those people were there. You have to rely on your own judgment and skill plus you have a captain's license. You did what you did and no harm done. Keep up the good work! > Hi, Y'all, > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > If we're anywhere there's traffic, or we're under way, we have 24/7 watch, > regardless of where we are, or how deep it is... > We're at anchor, with the toplight lit and the cockpit lit up, and > various of our redlighting below illuminating (if you're close enough [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > We should be standing watch based on all the responses to my last log posting. So far, I don't see why. > Oh, ya, let's just add in that we're dragging slightly, so our position > isn't constant, but there's nothing we can run into, and we are > confident in the bottom such that we know we won't move anywhere fast, > nor dangerously, so we don't bother with finding a more suitable bottom > - this one just lets us move a bit - to make us not move at all. Okay, what's "slightly?" How far did you drift? > We should have constant watch standers, right? I don't think I could sleep with a known "slip". As I recall, that caused a bit of a problem in Oxford. SignatureJere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ Hi, Jere, and group, > Okay, what's "slightly?" How far did you drift? We slipped at a little under 2 knots. We slept long and well, so it wound up being about 20 miles, mostly out to sea, as planned (well, not necessarily the distance, but the direction). We'd originally not planned to anchor, expecting to do a night sail, with all the attendant starry splendor, as part of our two-day excursion, as Samuel had never had the pleasure. Actually, that prospect is what drove us to come out, rather than exploring the hard parts of Cumberland Island. As has become routine, however, the weather forecasts were not accurate... All the local and NOAA forecasts didn't account for the rain which developed (and was strictly overnight, conditions being ideal during both daylights), or we'd have made different plans. When the rain messed that up, we went in to anchor, and failing that, went back out to sea, north on the island, as the wind was slightly north of west, with (calculating) plenty of sea room to avoid any markers, reefs or the channel. Our track showed we were correct in those calculations. >> We should have constant watch standers, right? > > I don't think I could sleep with a known "slip". As I recall, that > caused a bit of a problem in Oxford. :{)) In a narrow channel, with boats and docks and marker poles all around. That proved to be exciting, but not a problem - and had I any indication that we were not holding well, I'd have put down two anchors as I did after the event, preventing any further excitement during our stay there. Have a look at Cumberland Island. 15 miles of length, shallow for most of the length as well as well out from land, and unlimited room to windward (or, at least, the direction it was blowing). Not the same situation at all... Also, being very shallow and inshore (relative to anything else), unlikely to be home to anything larger than a fishing boat, out on a rainy night, and not on typical passage routes for pleasure vessels, let alone commercial traffic. Not a defense - just an observation of what went into our thinking on that rainy night. And, meanwhile, since the activity seems to have died down, I'll take this opportunity to suggest (humbly) that this thread has been far more fun than the Wilbur and associates threads. YMMV :{)) And, further, while perhaps not finally, rather than reply to the various other posts, I'll say a couple of things about the meat of this thread. Colregs' posters and comments are correct. We'll show different lights in the future, should the occasion occur for our heaving to, whatever the circumstance. In the event of open water, we'll still have watches. I have no doubt that during our passage to Maine, there will be times when it will be appropriate to heave to, as well as becalmed sections. In those situations, we'll maintain a watch. And, Krunchy, I'm accustomed to being shot at here (and other places). As I observed on another list, I (too?) have a crunchy crust and don't mind hopping up on the barbie. Jere observed, having met us in Annapolis, that our learning curve has been extremely steep, but we're vigorous mountain climbers. It's why I continue to expose my (our) foibles and adventures (sometimes misadventures) - it helps flatten the learning curve. Even Wilbur, when he's not taking potshots, sometimes has valuable advice. His recommendation, on my earlier solicitation for advice from the master, to put Flying Pig on a truck to get to Maine, was not one of those times, however :{)) Meanwhile, I'm installing all the 12 and 5V setups for our computer and Pactor system, chasing SSB tuner problems, and generally making shipshape for the passage. You'll hear about that in a separate post :{)) L8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah) > Meanwhile, I'm installing all the 12 and 5V setups for our computer > and Pactor system, chasing SSB tuner problems, and generally making > shipshape for the passage. You'll hear about that in a separate post > Skip Okay, now here comes a great deabate question........ Why do you NEED a ssb and all the associated ground foil/plate, tunner, 40 amp circuit, bla bla bla? In fact why is a ssb needed on any cruising boat? I suggest option #2: 1) HF-MF receiver only to get weather fax and listen to all the net nuts natter about what they consider very important BS 2) irridium phone for email, second WFX source, and voice communication. The above option makes fro a much simpler installation, less money, and more reliable. which for you SKip means LESS time screwing around with systems. Now some will say, but you lose the ability to talk to the other cruisers and hams.... to that I say, "so what" nothing lost. Bob > Okay, now here comes a great deabate question........ > Why do you NEED a ssb and all the associated ground foil/plate, > tunner, 40 amp circuit, bla bla bla? > In fact why is a ssb needed on any cruising boat? Bob, let me take a shot at this one. We originally went to the expense and hassle to put SSB & a Pactor modem on Tricia Jean because we felt that with 2 kids just out of the nest and my elderly mother (whose health could go south at any time) back in the states, we needed a way to be contacted should the need for our presence back in the U.S. arise. For us, that in and of itself was enough reason. However, we found that we used the SSB and email for far more than just emergency contact. I dunno anything about the east coast, but on the west coast, from the Mexican border all the way down to Ecuador and across to the S. Pacific, there were SSB nets that we participated in that gave us invaluable weather information, local info, and some enjoyable social contact (it was always fun when we eventually found ourselves in the same anchorage with a friend we had made over the SSB, but had never yet met in person). Also, the GRIB files we picked up every day while underway were just by themselves worth the price of admission. These wind forecasts were usually quite accurate (at least for about 48 hours out) and on one passage we made (Hawaii to Calif) caused us to make some underway routing changes that not only prevented us from getting really pasted, but resulted in a far faster and easier passage than we originally expected. There was also an instance during our Galapagos-Tahiti passage where a medical emergency arose on another boat. Thanks to the SSB and an ad-hoc net that had been set up by about 15 boats doing the crossing, several things were accomplished: - The wife was given competent medical advice regarding the care of her husband. - A Freighter was diverted to take the husband from the boat. - 2 other cruiser boats were standing by during the transfer in case their assistance was needed. - A couple of other boats that were further ahead of the now solo sailing wife were able to arrange a mid-ocean link up to transfer fuel to her (she was motoring during periods of low wind). In the 2 years we were out cruising, we personally used the SSB to arrange a mid-ocean link up twice to other boats to transfer fuel and/or water to them (once off the coast of Guatemala, and once a few days before reaching the Marquesas). I can hear some people out there already spouting off that if they were stupid enough to run out of fuel or water, they shouldn't be out there in the first place and perhaps they are right. But the way I figure it, what goes around, comes around. Next time, it might be me that needs some help, so when I could offer it, I didn't hesitate (especially in the case of the boat we gave both water and fuel to as there was an infant aboard). The gear isn't cheap, and it can use quite a bit of power, but it's a luxury that we'd rather not do without. SignatureDan Best s/v Tricia Jean, Tayana 37 #192 http://home.comcast.net/~triciajean192/ > > Okay, now here comes a great deabate question........ > > Why do you NEED a ssb and all the associated ground foil/plate, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > states, we needed a way to be contacted should the need for our presence > back in the U.S. arise. For us, that in and of itself was enough reason. Okay, I agree you certainly have a reason to talk to people. But why use ssb? > However, we found that we used the SSB and email for far more than just > emergency contact. Okay, so why not use irridium instead? > I dunno anything about the east coast, but on the > west coast, from the Mexican border all the way down to Ecuador and > across to the S. Pacific, there were SSB nets that we participated in > that gave us invaluable weather information, local info, and some > enjoyable social contact ANd here we go..... this is my belief. Many people support ssb because they can talk to a bunch of people on a "party line" > (it was always fun when we eventually found > ourselves in the same anchorage with a friend we had made over the SSB, > but had never yet met in person). Okay, I can argue against another persons idea of fun. But personnaly i dont like talking to people. My near approximation to conversations is posting. > Also, the GRIB files we picked up every day while underway were just by > themselves worth the price of admission. These can be receied with a $500 HF MF LF receive only unit or irridium. BOTH together cost less than an SSB install. > There was also an instance during our Galapagos-Tahiti passage where a > medical emergency arose on another boat. Thanks to the SSB and an [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > sailing wife were able to arrange a mid-ocean link up to transfer fuel > to her (she was motoring during periods of low wind). One phone call could do the same. > In the 2 years we were out cruising, we personally used the SSB to > arrange a mid-ocean link up twice to other boats to transfer fuel and/or > water to them (once off the coast of Guatemala, and once a few days > before reaching the Marquesas). Sounds like someone was a poor planner. > I can hear some people out there > already spouting off that if they were stupid enough to run out of fuel > or water, they shouldn't be out there in the first place and perhaps > they are right. Ups you second guessed my comment above. But ya gots to aggree it is true.... > The gear isn't cheap, and it can use quite a bit of power, but it's a > luxury that we'd rather not do without. > Dan Best > s/v Tricia Jean, Tayana 37 #192http://home.comcast.net/~triciajean192/ I certainly agree with you. however with the cheep cost of sat phone service and a cheep ssb recieve only unit a person has redundancy and reliability. but you are right it must get boaring not having anyone to chat to........ personally after two years listening to both side and using my recomeded set up I am absolutly believe the ledgend of the SSB has gone the way of manila line for anchor rode. Irridum phone: $1300 Service: $1.20 per minute SSB reciever: $500 Cost/time to install both: not much. Cost of SSB gear: $5000 plus all the gound plane hassle. But I may be wrong here and hopfully some Ham types will chastize me throughly for such heresy. Bob I wrote: >> > Also, the GRIB files we picked up every day while underway were just by >> > themselves worth the price of admission. > These can be receied with a $500 HF MF LF receive only unit or > irridium. BOTH together cost less than an SSB install. I know you can get the weather faxes with the receive only radio, but can you also get the GRIB files? If you can, I sure don't know how and I much prefer using the GRIB files in conjunction with the weather faxes for trying to figure out what the winds are going to be. ... > Cost of SSB gear: $5000 plus all the gound plane hassle. But I may be > wrong here and hopfully some Ham types will chastize me throughly for > such heresy. Uh, I may be a bit of a scrounger, but I paid $1500 for a used Icom 710 + Pactor 2e modem. As I recall, the firmware upgrade for the modem was about $100. My boat already had insulators on the backstay when I bought it, so we saved there. The foil for the ground plane I bought on ebay for cheap, so installation costs were just a bit of wire and a day of my time. Balance the fact that there is an annual sailmail fee with no per minute costs and suddenly, and the overall costs seem pretty comparable to me. Everybody's got to make their own choices, and no one size fits all. Some have neither the sat phone or the SSB and that's a valid choice. Some have just one and some have both. The sat phones and SSB each bring capabilities the other doesn't have. For us and many others though, if we have to choose just one, the SSB serves our needs better than the sat phone. Opinions, of course, will differ. SignatureDan Best - (559) 970-9858, Fresno, CA 93704 B-2/75 1977-1979 Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean" http://triciajean192.home.comcast.net >personnaly >i dont like talking to people. My near approximation to conversations >is posting. Hmm. Based on the postings, that sounds like it may be trying to make a virtue of necessity. >These can be receied with a $500 HF MF LF receive only unit or >irridium. BOTH together cost less than an SSB install. >Cost of SSB gear: $5000 plus all the gound plane hassle. But I may be >wrong here and hopfully some Ham types will chastize me throughly for >such heresy. >Bob Bob, In February last year I purchased a new Icom 710 SSB for US$1,090. The dealer kindly "snipped" it for me so that I had access to all the HAM bands. I can't remember the Auto tuner price but it was only a few hundred dollars. - not as expensive as your $5,000. These were all bought from a licenced dealer in South East Asia who I have had dealing with for several years. The Pactor III USB modem cost me about US$1,100 and about US$450 to have installed and checked out. As the SSB unit was a replacement for an Alinco unit all cabling and aerials remained the same. Apart from the US$250 annual Sailmail association fee, there are no call charges. I can get weatherfaxes as I have done for about 12 years but most importantly to me, I can download GRIB weather files and, of secondary importance, emails. A sat phone would have also done the job but with high fees over the long term Being able to listen to a cruising net on a voyage is just another safety factor. I seldom speak to a net but by listening you can glean such helpful info as to position of the intertropical convergence zone, thunderstorms etc. regards Peter >> Also, the GRIB files we picked up every day while underway were just by >> themselves worth the price of admission. > >These can be receied with a $500 HF MF LF receive only unit or >irridium. BOTH together cost less than an SSB install. That is *not* true. GRIB files are sent using Sailmail or Winlink which requires two way communication for error checking and re-transmission requests. It is quite clear to me that you know nothing about SSB or how it can be useful when cruising offshore. > ANd here we go..... this is my belief. Many people support ssb because > they can talk to a bunch of people on a "party line" The primary *good* reason for ssb is the "party line" aspect, similar to why a VHF is better than just a cell phone: If you put a call out, anyone within earshot can hear, respond and help. SignatureJere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ >why is a ssb needed on any cruising boat? > >Bob, let me take a shot at this one. Darnit, Dan. You're not supposed to answer rhetorical questions<g>. Now you've gone and spoiled all Bob's fun. >We slipped at a little under 2 knots. We slept long and well, so it >wound up being about 20 miles, mostly out to sea, as planned (well, >not necessarily the distance, but the direction). The correct description is underway, slowly making way in open water - not anchoring, not "slipping". Without a lookout this is extremely dangerous and negligent behavior, especially for 10 hours in congested waters. Don't kid yourself about being anchored. > Hi, Jere, and group, > ... > Also, being very shallow and inshore (relative to anything else), > unlikely to be home to anything larger than a fishing boat, out on a > rainy night, and not on typical passage routes for pleasure vessels, > let alone commercial traffic. Are your talking about St. Mary's Inlet, one of the largest in the area, a common destination for cruisers? The same inlet that has, as the Coast Pilot says, "a large shrimp boat fleet"? Also, there is a major paper mill with its own docks, plus additional commercial docks with a rail connection, and pilot boat service, required for foreign shipping. Plus a submarine station. Nope, no reason to expect any traffic here. You might as well just sleep for 10 hours while you sail on. Jeff, who was up checking status twice last night, even though we're on a secure inside mooring in Vineyard Haven. >> Hi, Jere, and group, >> ... [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Jeff, who was up checking status twice last night, even though we're on a > secure inside mooring in Vineyard Haven. It's like the story of the guy who's asleep below. He is barely awake and knows something is wrong with the boat, but he's tired, so he's still drifting in and out of sleep. Then, suddenly, he's fully awake, sitting up so fast he bonks his head on the space above his head. But, it doesn't matter. He knows what's wrong! The boat is not moving. It's clearly hard aground. He faults out of the bunk, scrambles topside, stubbing his toe on the way. That doesn't stop him for long either. Yup, she's hard aground. In fact, she's been that way for the last week. The boat is on a stand in the yard. Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com > It's like the story of the guy who's asleep below. He is barely awake and > knows something is wrong with the boat, but he's tired, so he's still [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > fact, she's been that way for the last week. The boat is on a stand in the > yard. Daing, ain't it the truth? Happened to me a few weeks ago.... SignatureJere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ >> Okay, what's "slightly?" How far did you drift? > > We slipped at a little under 2 knots. We slept long and well, so it > wound up being about 20 miles, mostly out to sea, as planned (well, > not necessarily the distance, but the direction). Oh, if that's what you call a "slight" slip.... I was envisioning maybe a hundred yards total overnight. I'd call 20 miles "running free" and while you happened to go a right direction, what would have happened if the tide or winds had shifted, as often happens when unexpected rain shows up? You should have had a watch rotation going. SignatureJere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ > Hi, Y'all, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > bottom - this one just lets us move a bit - to make us not move at > all. You didn't move "a bit", you moved 20 miles! Nothing you can run into!? Confident in the bottom while dragging at 2 knots!? > We should have constant watch standers, right? How about getting the anchor to hook up first? > Or, we could be hove to with handkerchiefs of sail up, anchor lights > lit, etc., as above, and drifting slightly in an area where we can't > run into anything, and there's no traffic due to the area... Can't run into anything as long as everything remains the same with the wind and current that is. How in the world do you know there is no traffic due? And I hope you now know hove to adrift is not the same as at anchor. And there for you display different lights. >You'll > see, on review, that such was the case which generated all the > bonhomie in response to my log, Are you surprised by that kind of responce? > If we're anywhere there's traffic, or we're under way, we have 24/7 > watch, regardless of where we are, or how deep it is... > > -- > L8R I've been following you from the start Skip and wishing you well. I even gave you the benefit of the doubt when you went aground in the Keys. But you are nuts and a danger to yourselves and others if you think what you did was in any way good seamanship. Capt. Bill >I've been following you from the start Skip and wishing you well. I >even gave you the benefit of the doubt when you went aground in the >Keys. But you are nuts and a danger to yourselves and others if you >think what you did was in any way good seamanship. Absolutely right. Hi, Y'all, Well, the spume seems to have died down a bit as the wind dies, so now might be a good time, especially as we'll be out of range soon, unable to see or make commentary, to make a couple of observations: First, you who have tried have made and scored your points. I'm not ineducable (those who've observed note that we learn pretty fast), and historically I rarely make the same mistake more than once. My silence on these matters - other than to provide more info where a question was asked - was not from either inobservation nor pique. Taking notes, so to speak. Second, I will do my best to remain out of range of those of you who think we represent a hazard to shipping or personnel. Those who have sailed with us generally ask us to get really close whenever we might be able to do so, however, so, if you're among the first or second group (vs those who don't give a rip, or who exist only in the ether), if you'll let me know where you are or will be in our (generally announced) cruising range, as well as which group you populate, we'll attempt to oblige, either way. Finally, at 40 posts, particularly to not have devolved into best bicycles, guns, anchors, politics or Hitler, I say again that this has been ever so much more fun than the typical Wilbur show hereabouts. Of course, that could be pride of authorship, but as mine represent about 10% of the thread, I think not :{)) YMMV :{)) SignatureL8R Skip, back to the final stage, wiring/powering of the computer/internet redo, and the last little boat chores, before departure Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah) > Hi, Y'all, > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > If we're anywhere there's traffic, or we're under way, we have 24/7 > watch, regardless of where we are, or how deep it is... > Hi, Y'all, > I'm not > ineducable (those who've observed note that we learn pretty fast), and > historically I rarely make the same mistake more than once. Hey Skip: I must disagree Skip. Your descriptions show a predictable patern: FAILURE TO FOLLOW THE COLREGS. Ill put this another way, You consistantly break the law. The colregs are not advice or "a relly good idea." they are the LAW of both Inland and International waters. > Second, I will do my best to remain out of range of those of you who > think we represent a hazard to shipping or personnel. Skip So you plan continuing to break the law and ask that others stay out of your way to maintain their safety ?!?!?!? That seem a rather arrogant, passive-agressive, and what i would call malevolent obedience............... Bob On Jul 18, 4:48 am, "Skip Gundlach" <skipgundl...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, Y'all, > I'm not > ineducable (those who've observed note that we learn pretty fast), > and > historically I rarely make the same mistake more than once. Hey Skip: I must disagree Skip. Your descriptions show a predictable patern: FAILURE TO FOLLOW THE COLREGS. Ill put this another way, You consistantly break the law. The colregs are not advice or "a relly good idea." they are the LAW of both Inland and International waters. > Second, I will do my best to remain out of range of those of you who > think we represent a hazard to shipping or personnel. Skip So you plan continuing to break the law and ask that others stay out of your way to maintain their safety ?!?!?!? That seem a rather arrogant, passive-agressive, and what i would call malevolent obedience............... Bob Good morning, Bob, and all. As my learning curve on the newsreader someone here was kind enough to point me and Roger to apparently is going uphill, my replies don't have attribution marks as would normally be the case. I'm not going to sort through that right now, but, to your observations: First, are you referring to my observations in this thread or historically? This thread has been about how we got into this discussion, and my candid admissions of any and all circumstance thereabout. Wilbur has choice observations on those who come clean, but I've never had a problem with it. Certainly, if it's not vivid, a quickie search for the thread which started as "I learned about sailing from that" ought to produce the memory and conviction that that's so. Historically, I believe my observations support my position. This thread has been (on my part, anyway), how it happened. I never said I was right, nor justified. I just stated the facts. Second, you need to take a remedial reading course. I very specifically said I would avoid being in the proximity ("remain out of range") of any who found my presence in any way a safety hazard, which I fail to read as asking others to avoid *me*. Perhaps you could suggest a better wording, but I believe the information and intent was clear to most any sentient reader of the english (note the small e as it's not the Queen's) language. However, for clarification, for those in group 2, I regretfully will defer to group 1, should you overlap. I will be careful (perhaps you like this wording better) not to enter the protective zone, at least of the size applied to American Warships) of those in group 1, and if you're (a member of group 2) in that zone, I'll not be as close as perhaps you'd like; rafting up will be impossible unless you come to us (as a couple of the regulars here did, when we were in Annapolis). And (back to Bob), just in case you were trying to use up the arrows in your quiver and put more up on point one, I refer you to your first quote of mine and assume the inference to be sufficient. My statement stands. You know you'll hear more from me in the future, so stow this one and drag it out when you've proven your point, later. As breakfast looms, Hogs and Quiches... SignatureL8R Luff from Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah) > If you're (a member of group 2) in that zone, I'll not be as close as > perhaps you'd like; rafting up will be impossible unless you come to us > (as a couple of the regulars here did, when we were in Annapolis). Well, you know where many of us "live", and you'll be coming back south eventually. Maybe this time, you'll get to see Pat as we'll have a bit more time.... My last day of employment at my current company is 1 August; the office is being outsourced, we've been training our Indian replacements for 6 or so months. As one of the first to go, my co-workers are jealous as they might not escape what we see coming, possibly sooner than we predicted just a few weeks ago.... SignatureJere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ > Hi, Y'all, > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Skip >Those who have > sailed with us generally ask us to get really close whenever we might > be able to do so, Well, based on the way you anchor, getting close to people will not be a problem. > Finally, at 40 posts, particularly to not have devolved into best > bicycles, guns, anchors, politics or Hitler, I say again that this has > been ever so much more fun than the typical Wilbur show hereabouts. > Of course, that could be pride of authorship, but as mine represent > about 10% of the thread, I think not :{)) So basical, this has been more about feeding your ego than learning from your mistakes? I'm not sure you learned a thing. But good luck. Capt. Bill > Finally, at 40 posts, particularly to not have devolved into best > bicycles, guns, anchors, politics or Hitler, I say again that this > has > been ever so much more fun than the typical Wilbur show hereabouts. > Of course, that could be pride of authorship, but as mine represent > about 10% of the thread, I think not :{)) So basical, this has been more about feeding your ego than learning from your mistakes? I'm not sure you learned a thing. But good luck. Capt. Bill If you'd like it to be about my ego, when, with perhaps one exception (or maybe that was in my next post?), the entire thread has been about bashing me, have at it. I just thought that it might have been more entertaining than similarly long threads where Wilbur and others trade insults. Despite the flog stripes and tracks on my back, it was, to me, at least. YMMV SignatureL8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah) On Jul 18, 8:48 am, "Skip Gundlach" <skipgundl...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, Y'all, > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Skip >Those who have > sailed with us generally ask us to get really close whenever we > might > be able to do so, Well, based on the way you anchor, getting close to people will not be a problem. > Finally, at 40 posts, particularly to not have devolved into best > bicycles, guns, anchors, politics or Hitler, I say again that this > has > been ever so much more fun than the typical Wilbur show hereabouts. > Of course, that could be pride of authorship, but as mine represent > about 10% of the thread, I think not :{)) So basical, this has been more about feeding your ego than learning from your mistakes? I'm not sure you learned a thing. But good luck. Capt. Bill > > Finally, at 40 posts, particularly to not have devolved into best > > bicycles, guns, anchors, politics or Hitler, I say again that this [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Skip Sorry, but it seems at times like you need a bit of "bashing" to get it through to you that sailing/boating is not always fun and games and ha, ha look at the silly thing I did now and got away with, THIS time. As far as the thread being "entertaining" goes, I guess some of us hoped you'd would find it more informative than entertaining. That, of course, is assuming you really do love your wife and you're not just setting her up for a life insurance scam. While leaving a trail here for the investigators to follow to document your incompetence. :-) Capt. Bill Hi, Bill, Just a quickie, as we're in the last stages of prep for our departure (see upcoming post)... You said, "As far as the thread being "entertaining" goes, I guess some of us hoped you'd would find it more informative than entertaining." Yes, informative, for all. If you look at the thread from Feb 07 "I learned about sailing from that" you'll see that the main purpose was to be informative (and be informed). There's no difference here, other than we're arguing, pontificating, or whatever, about an uneventful night, rather than a wreck. I *did* say you all had made your points. But my point on which you focused was merely that - since it only spawned (in a separate thread) one name-calling and otherwise ill-tempered response, let alone the usual huge deviation off-topic, it was very unusual in usenet - and, at least to me, far more entertaining, even though was the "guest of honor" at the flogging, than the many Wilbur-centric threads hereabouts. As I said before, however, YMMV :{))) Off to the last bits before departure - upcoming post on that soon. SignatureL8R Skip Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery ! Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog "You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come true. You may have to work for it however." (and) "There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts." (Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah) On Jul 19, 8:07 am, "Skip Gundlach" <skipgundl...@gmail.com> wrote: > "Capt.Bill" <capt.bil...@verizon.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Skip Sorry, but it seems at times like you need a bit of "bashing" to get it through to you that sailing/boating is not always fun and games and ha, ha look at the silly thing I did now and got away with, THIS time. As far as the thread being "entertaining" goes, I guess some of us hoped you'd would find it more informative than entertaining. That, of course, is assuming you really do love your wife and you're not just setting her up for a life insurance scam. While leaving a trail here for the investigators to follow to document your incompetence. :-) Capt. Bill >I just thought that it might have been more entertaining than >similarly long threads where Wilbur and others trade insults. Despite >the flog stripes and tracks on my back, it was, to me, at least. YMMV Keep on posting about where you are and what you are doing. Keep on posting about the mistakes you make because that helps all of us. There are certain nights I would have been delighted to cover 20 miles in my sleep. I have no idea what to do while lying ahull and making 2 knots except to break sail and go fast, Ryk |
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