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Boat Forum / Cruising / July 2008Fender Mangement
Anybody using these? Anybody care to laugh at the very idea of them? http://www.fendergrip.com/fg.html --Vic > Anybody using these? > Anybody care to laugh at the very idea of them? > > http://www.fendergrip.com/fg.html > > --Vic I wouldn't laugh, and I suppose they would give some flexibility, but I would never use them, especially on lifelines or stanchions. Why not just use a cleat hitch on a cleat?  Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com >>Anybody using these? >>Anybody care to laugh at the very idea of them? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > would never use them, especially on lifelines or stanchions. Why not just > use a cleat hitch on a cleat? They are for the Knot-ically challenged... >Anybody using these? >Anybody care to laugh at the very idea of them? > >http://www.fendergrip.com/fg.html > >--Vic I don't like being laughed at. Clove hitches rule. >>Anybody using these? >>Anybody care to laugh at the very idea of them? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I don't like being laughed at. Clove hitches rule. I prefer a cow hitch plus a slippery half-hitch around the standing part, but to each their own. >>Anybody using these? >>Anybody care to laugh at the very idea of them? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I don't like being laughed at. Clove hitches rule. I don't typically use clove hitches for fender lines. Any up/down motion with a fender against a dock will loosen them. A cow hitch might be better, but it could still come undone fairly easily, as KLC says (and the 1/2 hitch would add security). Why not use just an RT with two half-hitches? More secure, tightens under load? Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com >>>Anybody using these? >>>Anybody care to laugh at the very idea of them? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >would add security). Why not use just an RT with two half-hitches? More >secure, tightens under load? Add a half hitch or two. >>>>Anybody using these? >>>>Anybody care to laugh at the very idea of them? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Add a half hitch or two. Yep... of course then I'm not sure the point of the clove hitch part. A round turn is easier to untie in a hurry (though barely). Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com > >>>>Anybody using these? > >>>>Anybody care to laugh at the very idea of them? [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > -- > "j" ganz @@www.sailnow.com Loop over the lifeline or rail then tie a prusik back onto the line. Cost: nearly zero. >> >>>>Anybody using these? >> >>>>Anybody care to laugh at the very idea of them? [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Loop over the lifeline or rail then tie a prusik back onto the line. > Cost: nearly zero. I think it's a very bad idea to put a fender line over a lifeline or rail. Neither is designed for the potential loads. Cost: new lifelines or rails. Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com >>> >>>>Anybody using these? >>> >>>>Anybody care to laugh at the very idea of them? [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >I think it's a very bad idea to put a fender line over a lifeline or rail. >Neither is designed for the potential loads. Cost: new lifelines or rails. Lifelines are intended for rather severe loads, such as a 200 pound crew being thrown against it. If your (editorial "your") lifelines can't be trusted to support a few 5-10 pound fenders, it's time for some serious upgrades. > Lifelines are intended for rather severe loads, such as a 200 pound crew > being > thrown against it. If your (editorial "your") lifelines can't be trusted > to > support a few 5-10 pound fenders, it's time for some serious upgrades. That doesn't sound like a statement from someone whose been around much, although I know you have. One of the jackasses roars through the no wake zone, the boat rolls down and hooks the fender under either the guard or the protruding edge of the dock planking and then rolls up as it's pushed against the dock. Strain is now the lesser of: The breaking strength of the fender line. The righting moment of the boat with some inertia factor thrown in. The force necessary to shread or collapse the fender and pull it out. Either of these is likely to be well in excess of the strain you would like to routinely put on a safety item your life might depend on some day. I've seen it happen. Just because lifelines don't fail when subjected to common abuse doesn't mean bedding and laminates are not being compromised at the bases in ways that could weaken them down the road. Stanchions are a difficult engineering problem on all except metal boats where they are welded to the structure. Treat them with the respect you would any important safety equipment. -- Roger Long >> Lifelines are intended for rather severe loads, such as a 200 pound crew >> being [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >structure. Treat them with the respect you would any important safety >equipment. The strongest direction for life lines is downward force, which is what happens of a fender gets caught under a dock. The weakest is the sideways force of someone being thrown against them. They are also somewhat sacrificial in nature. In a contest between my fenders and the righting moment forces of the boat, I'm pretty confident that the fender whips would part long before the lifelines got anywhere near the failure point. For that matter, the finger of my floating dock could probably be lifted until either the fender whip failed or the fender came free, without breaking the lifelines. For that matter, a couple of weeks ago, my wife lost her grip on a fender (clipped to the lifeline) as she was putting it over the side. The plastic clip holding the fender gave it's life and we had to go back and retrieve the fender. I don't think the lifeline even noticed. <http://www.iboats.com/Fender_Tender_II/dm/cart_id.069729997--category_id.238302- -list_time.1217250756--session_id.974456088--view_id.38397> >>> Lifelines are intended for rather severe loads, such as a 200 pound crew >>> being [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > could probably be lifted until either the fender whip failed or the > fender came free, without breaking the lifelines. Where do you get this? A fender, caught under a dock will tear the lifeline right off the boat. In fact, it'll collapse the entire side. I've seen this happen. Why would you want to sacrifice $100s worth of lifeline instead of tying the fender line to a proper spot... In addition, the daily stress of the lifelines being moved back and forth with the fender that is rubbing will degrade the lines and the "whip" will certainly fail sooner rather than later. > For that matter, a couple of weeks ago, my wife lost her grip on a > fender (clipped to the lifeline) as she was putting it over the side. > The plastic clip holding the fender gave it's life and we had to go > back and retrieve the fender. I don't think the lifeline even noticed. > > <http://www.iboats.com/Fender_Tender_II/dm/cart_id.069729997--category_id.238302- -list_time.1217250756--session_id.974456088--view_id.38397> Once time does not make for constant stress... Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com >>>> Lifelines are intended for rather severe loads, such as a 200 pound crew >>>> being [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > >Once time does not make for constant stress... In roughly 45 years, I have never had a fender break a lifeline. My example of the fender my wife dropped is to demonstrate that it really doesn't take much trauma to separate a fender from the boat with even modest force. Much less force than it would take to hurt the lifelines or stanchions. I also pointed out that stantions are somewhet "sacrificial by design. When I start replacing them every week or even every 10 years due to my fenders causing damage to them, I may reconsider. :') >My example of the fender my wife dropped is to demonstrate that it really > doesn't take much trauma to separate a fender from the boat with even > modest force. Well, it should take a lot of force to separate your fenders from the boat and they should be secured to proper solid attachement points. After all, they are protecting iyour boat while is sitting there unattended. I've moved my home dock fenders to the dock, hanging horizontal just under the dock bumper. This provides two redundant attachements for each one and I can flip them up on the dock so they don't interfere with docking and undocking. Having them entirely under the rubber bumper keeps them from being displaced up onto the dock and they keep the hull off the harder dock edge guard. Did you really say "stanchions are somewhat sacraficial"? I'll reserve comment until confirmation that you really meant that. -- Roger Long >>My example of the fender my wife dropped is to demonstrate that it really >> doesn't take much trauma to separate a fender from the boat with even [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Did you really say "stanchions are somewhat sacraficial"? I'll reserve >comment until confirmation that you really meant that. Perhaps you just didn't understand what I meant. >>>> > On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 10:09:03 -0700, "Capt. JG" >>>> > <jg...@sailnow.invalid> [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > to > support a few 5-10 pound fenders, it's time for some serious upgrades. I guess you've never had a fender get caught slightly under the dock next to the boat. It's going to be way more than 200 lbs worth of pull when the boat moves and the fenders can't. Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com >>>>> > On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 10:09:03 -0700, "Capt. JG" >>>>> > <jg...@sailnow.invalid> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >the boat. It's going to be way more than 200 lbs worth of pull when the boat >moves and the fenders can't. A 200 pound person being thrown against the lifelines exerts a heck of a lot more than 200 pounds of force, and in the direction where the stanchions are weakest. I have had fenders get caught, and there are several things that will surrender before the lifelines when it happens. >>>>>> > On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 10:09:03 -0700, "Capt. JG" >>>>>> > <jg...@sailnow.invalid> [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > several things that will surrender before the lifelines when it > happens. Perhaps, but you were talking about the whips breaking. Stanchions are not going to compress into the deck, but they may get pulled to one side including fore/aft if a lifeline is depressed even by a 200 lb person. Perhaps it's not going to be an issue if one is smart enough to have sacrificial plastic on the end of the fender line, but a lot of people just do a clove or round turn around the lifeline. Thus, no plastic to break, just severely depressing the lifeline, bending the stanchion, etc. Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com >>>>>>> > On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 10:09:03 -0700, "Capt. JG" >>>>>>> > <jg...@sailnow.invalid> [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] >do a clove or round turn around the lifeline. Thus, no plastic to break, >just severely depressing the lifeline, bending the stanchion, etc. Then I guess it boils down to the fact that it's perfectly fine to hang your fenders from the lifelines, as long as you do it correctly. :') >>>>>>>> > On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 10:09:03 -0700, "Capt. JG" >>>>>>>> > <jg...@sailnow.invalid> [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > hang your fenders from the lifelines, as long as you do it correctly. > :') Heh... well, you got me there.. Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com > I think it's a very bad idea to put a fender line over a lifeline or rail. > Neither is designed for the potential loads. Cost: new lifelines or rails. Not owning a boat, and all those I've sailed with having all tied fenders to life-lines, I have to ask: to where should one tie a fender if not the life-lines? Justin. SignatureJustin C, by the sea. >> I think it's a very bad idea to put a fender line over a lifeline or >> rail. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Justin. Toe rails, cleats amidships. Unless you have break-away fasteners on the bitter end of the fender line. Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com >Toe rails, cleats amidships. The toe rail doesn't work on those pretty mahogany or teak toe rails. Fortunately, my boat has nice aluminum toe rails with holes about ever foot, an ideal place to fasten fenders. > tie a prusik And y'all make fun of people who use gadgets... Wife is way smarter than any of you. Got tired of lashing the fenders to the lifelines, having to adjust them and all that. She got some bronze snap shackles, the kind that have an eye at one end and a spring-loaded keeper (what is that thing called?) at the hook end. Tied them to the approporiate fenders at the right height. They snap right on to the bales at the bases of the stanchions. The bronze is strong but not so strong that it will carry away the stanchions if they get caught. They break. The shackles also work great for fender stowage. A length of line secured to the pushpit. Just snap the shackles to the line. By the way, we have never, ever actually bought a fender. We find them floating in the water and have more than we can use. > Wife is way smarter than any of you. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > By the way, we have never, ever actually bought a fender. We find them > floating in the water and have more than we can use. Along with stanchions and lifelines? LOL You could make a boat from all the things found floating or nearly floating. Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com > Anybody using these? > Anybody care to laugh at the very idea of them? > > http://www.fendergrip.com/fg.html It's so funny watching people try to use these things. I can pull out and place a half-dozen fenders before they get the first one sorted out. SignatureJere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ >> Anybody using these? >> Anybody care to laugh at the very idea of them? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >I can pull out and place a half-dozen fenders before they get the first >one sorted out. Why do you need a half dozen fenders on a 28 foot boat? I think we can all have a good laugh about that, Jere. :') >>> Anybody using these? >>> Anybody care to laugh at the very idea of them? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > have > a good laugh about that, Jere. :') Kinda like this? http://picasaweb.google.com/SailNOW.com/Miscellaneous/photo#5228220573728183362 Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com >>>> Anybody using these? >>>> Anybody care to laugh at the very idea of them? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >http://picasaweb.google.com/SailNOW.com/Miscellaneous/photo#5228220573728183362 HOLY CRAP! Looks like a waterborne hearse or something. >>>>On 2008-07-26 17:36:33 -0400, Vic Smith >>>><thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > HOLY CRAP! Looks like a waterborne hearse or something. Do you want to guess what kind of boat it is? Hint... JimC would love it! The first time I saw it, I did a double, then tripple take. This is a really protected marina, and this particular spot is probably the most protected spot there. This guy must have spent a fortune on boat coverings. I don't think I've seen it leave the slip in over two years, but I did see him standing on it without the covers. He seemed confused about what to do, so offering to help, I asked. He said, no he was fine, and he was thinking about going for a sail. He put the boat away and I haven't seen him since. Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com >>>>>On 2008-07-26 17:36:33 -0400, Vic Smith >>>>><thismailautodeleted@comcast.net> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >offering to help, I asked. He said, no he was fine, and he was thinking >about going for a sail. He put the boat away and I haven't seen him since. So, I wasn't far off wioth the "hearse" comment... Too funny. >>> Anybody using these? >>> Anybody care to laugh at the very idea of them? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Why do you need a half dozen fenders on a 28 foot boat? I think we can all have > a good laugh about that, Jere. :') Ahhh, you caught that ;-) Often, we're in the middle of a raft-up. We carry 10, just in case, as our raft-mates can be 15-55', power or sail, with varying skill-levels. When in doubt, I carpet the side of the boat. I also tend to be the one throwing the lines and warping them in, as few have 60' "dock lines" (old sheets), nor can they toss what they have more than about 10'. SignatureJere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
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