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Boat Forum / Cruising / June 2009Computer display for the boat?
While we are arguing about charging the batteries, how about some help DIScharging them? I'd like to put a 15 to 19 inch VGA monitor up forward to show charts and play movies and such. It would mount up in the fo'c'sle and fold up out of the way when not in use. (I'll make a nice fiberglass mount/container for it) I've been Googling this mess (bo-ring!) for Marine, Automotive, and RV equipment (and even cheap home computer monitors). The marine and RV stuff are really expensive. $500 + for a $100 toy. So far, a raw LCD 15 inch display looks best from the point of battery usage (12 volt DC, 24 watts). The 15 inch version pulls about 40 watts (!) The LED displays are almost all 120 vac devices. I'd like to find: SVGA input. Other optional inputs are ok, but the laptop will be the primary source. 16:9 aspect ratio. 1280 x 800 is the native laptop display. 12 volt DC power 1000:1 or better contrast ratio 5 ms or better grey-grey response time. for a couple of bucks maybe?? Larry??? > So far, a raw LCD 15 inch display looks best from the point of battery > usage (12 volt DC, 24 watts). [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Larry??? Well, 40 watts, you wanted help discharging, right?....(c;] I have two comments that are pet peeves of mine. A boat is a BRIGHT place to watch TV. Any surface brightly lit radiates LIGHT....duhh... So, EVERY display on the boat MUST be NON-GLOSSY, NON-REFLECTIVE....so you're not trying to watch the picture through a damned mirror showing you YOU and most of the brightly-lit stuff behind you...marina, hatches, that horrid picture the wife keeps threatening to throw overboard, the clock on the bulkhead, etc. THIS is FAR more important than what power it draws. TV is useless if you can't stand to watch it without waiting for it to get dark outside. Another issue, on a boat, is "Where are you gonna stow it?" It'd be nice to have a super 42" beast to watch the movie, but they don't fold up and stow in the lazerette with the dock lines when you're going to sea. Oh, they have those stupid swinging mounts that bang the mounted TV around when you heel over and it slams against the starboard cabinetry, leaving a gouge, but having a big LCD TV aboard is a real stowage problem because they're just too big! I wouldn't wanna sleep with it in the watch berth. So, keep it small, keep it NON GLARE and keep it LCD. 12-18" LCD high definition TV that runs on 12VDC and has an XVGA computer input and a NON GLOSSY screen AND NON GLOSSY FRAME AROUND THE SCREEN (flat black is best!). That should narrow it down a lot.....  Signature----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? >> So far, a raw LCD 15 inch display looks best from the point of battery >> usage (12 volt DC, 24 watts). [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > That should narrow it down a lot..... I completely agree about the non reflective screen issue. I should have included it in the list. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~capri26/ 7th pic down... the screen will fold up under the deck in front of that shelf. Out of the way, and with a hard cover, should be safe there. Up there, with a little down angle like you were stretched out on the bunk, even the mirror surface of my lap top looks great. All the reflections go elsewhere. I think 18 inches will be plenty. But 40 watts! and that's just the display. Doesn't include the computer or audio amp. I've got the audio run into the stereo, and the sound is theater quality - specially in that echo chamber. > I completely agree about the non reflective screen issue. > I should have included it in the list. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I've got the audio run into the stereo, and the sound is theater > quality - specially in that echo chamber. I've got absolutely nothing to offer for advice, but I like your boat! Especially the open layout below with no bulkhead and no attemp to create a seperate v berth. I think this is so much better in a small boat than trying to cram seating in the salon and having a seperate v. Cool! > I've got absolutely nothing to offer for advice, but I like your boat! > Especially the open layout below with no bulkhead and no attemp to create a > seperate v berth. I think this is so much better in a small boat than trying > to cram seating in the salon and having a seperate v. > Cool! Why thank you, mmc! Obviously a person of high intelligence and elegant tastes! :) But yeah, I like it too. One of Frank Butler's better doodles. The interior space is a result of the 10 feet of beam. And, as you said, not breaking the space up into little areas. At first I thought the head took up more room than necessary, but I've come to like it after a very short time. And the ladies who have been aboard all approve heartily. A bit of privacy while attending to those things seems to be important to them. I tried out the V-berth on a Catalina 27 and 28. The 30 wasn't too bad, but the others were way too cramped for me. This boat has a queen sized berth under the cockpit. In reality, the port side will be used for storage and the starboard side used as a pilot berth. Like the Baby Bear's bed in the old children's story, this one fits just right. Richard >> I completely agree about the non reflective screen issue. >> I should have included it in the list. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >to cram seating in the salon and having a seperate v. >Cool! As clean a boat as I have ever seen. Nice >>> I completely agree about the non reflective screen issue. >>> I should have included it in the list. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > As clean a boat as I have ever seen. Nice You just validated a weeks scrubbing, Wally. Thanks. We appreciate that. >> As clean a boat as I have ever seen. Nice > > You just validated a weeks scrubbing, Wally. > > Thanks. > We appreciate that. Is that a tiny scratch on that handrail, there, or maybe just a reflection off the highly polished surface?.....(c;] I can't sail on boats like this "showroom" boat. Too many weeks on something that looks like humans live there and weren't afraid to put their deckshoes on the wine-stained cushions.... I can tell your boat never had one of OUR dock parties.... Signature----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? >>> As clean a boat as I have ever seen. Nice >> You just validated a weeks scrubbing, Wally. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I can tell your boat never had one of OUR dock parties.... She's 18 years old, Larry - hardly in "show room" condition. She has some battle damage - but nothing terrible. She's just new to us, so we've put a bit of elbow grease into making her sparkle a bit - for the commissioning party! A week later she's "normal" again. :) cavelamb <cavelamb@earthlink.net> wrote in news:C- 6dnfyfpuidRtrXnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@earthlink.com: > She's 18 years old, Larry - hardly in "show room" condition. > She has some battle damage - but nothing terrible. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > A week later she's "normal" again. :) I took my 16' jetboat up to "Bushy Park", an earthen dam that simply separated the brackish water of the Cooper River from fresh water that comes down a canal from up the Cooper far enough to be all fresh from the lake. It's a reservoir for our water system. There's a boat ramp on both sides the county maintains with nice floating aluminum docks and paved parking/ramps. I launched the jetboat in the salt side for a trip up the Cooper, then back down the canal upriver into the reservoir, a very nice daytrip on the river in beautiful weather that can be extended to go all the way up to the dam, through the free lock into the lake and back if there's time. I tied the boat up to the dock by the launching ramps and across the dock from there was a little girl sitting in a very old runabout that had seen most of its life powered by a tired old Evinrude, a boat for the less fortunate of us. She said to me, very proudly, "This is my daddy's new boat! Isn't she beautiful?!" with a smile that was several orders of magnitude brighter than the hot South Carolina sun. I complimented her on her fine craft and, upon reinspection, could see it was the finest vessel on the river that day. How could anyone think otherwise by such a brightly-lit main deck, brighter than anything else in view? As I parked the car in the lot, I just felt this was going to be a special day. It already had been.....(c;] Funny how cracked plastic seats look so much different when such a pretty little girl was sitting in them..... Signature----- Larry If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something, is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him? >cavelamb <cavelamb@earthlink.net> wrote in news:C- >6dnfyfpuidRtrXnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@earthlink.com: [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >Funny how cracked plastic seats look so much different when such a >pretty little girl was sitting in them..... Our 16 foot jet boat is Turbocraft hull # 10, the first ones ever sold fifty years ago. It has been painted and had new upholstery in all that time. > Our 16 foot jet boat is Turbocraft hull # 10, the first ones ever sold > fifty years ago. It has been painted and had new upholstery in all > that time. Mine was a piece of Brunswick crap called a Sea Ray Sea Rayder F16XR2 built in TN. It nearly killed me when the 3/8" gas line run through 3" cable clamps, they use to hold up the big inlet tank hose, to the tank came loose from the 5/16" gas hose barb on the Mercury 175 Sport Jet, and fell down in the very rear of the boat while speeding down the river at 50. So much hose was below the gas tank level, if it had a anti-siphonn valve, which I doubted after the fact, it overcame the valve and filled the hull with so much gas the Rule bilge pump came on...Thanks for SEALED mercury float switches and explosion proof motors RULE!. There was so much gas fumes the engine actually ran, but too rich of course, on what it was sucking in through 6 carbs before I smelled it. Mercury's Thunderbolt Ignition didn't have any leaks or the boat would have simply exploded with me in it....sitting right in front of the explosion. I'm lucky to be here. If you need 5/16" gasline, I still have a whole reel Sea Ray sent me in my warehouse. Fed up with it constantly coming apart, I dumped it for 40% of the original wholesale price I paid for it....its best day. The dealer, Sea Ray of Charleston, told me if I didn't stop posting about my Sea Rayder on rec.boats and rec.sport.jetski he wasn't going to service it any more as I didn't buy it from him at retail. I told him to take his dealership and Sea Ray and shove them up his a.s, right in front of his service manager. Sea Ray and Brunswick doesn't have to worry over ever selling me another bowling pin. Ironically, Sea Ray still mails me their magazine and a bunch of spam specials for a new Sea Ray every so often. I tried, unsuccessfully, to get off their mailing list a long time ago....(c;] Everybody should own ONE Brunswick boat. Bayliners are the deluxe models. You will find that finding a 12 V or 24 V DC LCD screen is very difficult at best. You will also find that when found for marine use, they are very expensive. There are reasons for this beyond those very valid caveats made bt Larry. One of which is black is not black. Most screens glow somewhat when displaying black. Marine screens do not, as protection of night vision is pretty importsnt on a bridge. But your requirement is not a ship's bridge and can be met with an inexpensive computer display that runs off AC with the use of the low wattage sine wave inverters. The good ones do not radiate and are amazingly efficient. If you want to keep this screen inexpensive, you may find that you will have to drop your contrast ratio spec of 1000 to 1 to 800 to 1. Steve > While we are arguing about charging the batteries, > how about some help DIScharging them? [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Larry??? > You will find that finding a 12 V or 24 V DC LCD screen is very difficult at > best. You will also find that when found for marine use, they are very [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > 1 to 800 to 1. > Steve I didn't know that about marine screens. The non-glow thing. Interesting point and maybe the extra bucks are not just fools gold. Plain old flat panel computer monitors are certainly cheap enough these days. The 1000:1 ratio is pretty old fashioned stuff these days at least among computer monitors. Some of them are amazingly high. I didn't see anything in the 1280 x ? resolution at less than 1000:1. A good 18" matte finished display (Dell?) was about $125 or so. The inverter is going to be the trick that makes the rabbit pop out of the hat. If it can run the CPU and the display, I think I'd quit there. The one I had before was not a true sine wave output - but a stair step sorta sine wave. Some things did not so well with that (actually died at first sight!) I'm sure things have improved since then (10 years?). But how would one know before hand??? Lastly, I need a simple way to switch from inverter to shore power. Probably easiest would be to have a 110 connection - one socket marked shore power, the other marked inverter and a single plug to the system. Plug it into one or the other? Surely ought to do a good job discharging the house batteries! The sine wave inverters that I am refering to cost in the area of $100 for a 150 watt model. I just went through this experience for a radar screen and I had exactly your questions. I was specificically concerned about it's RF noise emissions, native resolution, correct aspect ratio and the efficiency of the inverter with a 40 watt draw. I made the plunge picked up a screen for 140 Euros and the inverter from Conrad. I then tested the setup with a lab power supply and a AM radio tuned off station, where I could monitor the power draw precisely for all conditions and I was pleasantly surprised. The screen was rated at 34 watts and I saw 36 watts off the lab supply when on and displaying an image and when the screen was off, the inverter was drawing just a few milliwatts. Also, when the inverter was powered up, the radio emitted no white noise. In conclusion, the sine wave inverter works a treat and the setup cost much less than a certified marine screen. Steve >> You will find that finding a 12 V or 24 V DC LCD screen is very difficult >> at best. You will also find that when found for marine use, they are very [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Surely ought to do a good job discharging the house batteries! > The sine wave inverters that I am refering to cost in the area of $100 for a > 150 watt model. I just went through this experience for a radar screen and I [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > treat and the setup cost much less than a certified marine screen. > Steve Thanks shipmate! That's the way to go then. >>> You will find that finding a 12 V or 24 V DC LCD screen is very difficult >>> at best. You will also find that when found for marine use, they are very [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >> >> Surely ought to do a good job discharging the house batteries! >Lastly, I need a simple way to switch from inverter to shore power. >Probably easiest would be to have a 110 connection - one socket marked >shore power, the other marked inverter and a single plug to the system. >Plug it into one or the other? I already had a rotary switch to go from generator to shore power so just bought a new switch with 3 positions instead of two for the inverter. Blue Seas makes one that would probably work for you: http://bluesea.com/application/6/productline/overview/173 Otherwise you could just use a DPDT toggle switch if you are switching less current. >> Lastly, I need a simple way to switch from inverter to shore power. >> Probably easiest would be to have a 110 connection - one socket marked [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Otherwise you could just use a DPDT toggle switch if you are switching > less current. This mess would only require 1 or 2 amps of AC to run everything. DPDT, with center off? That might be more sensible than fooling with the plug. >This mess would only require 1 or 2 amps of AC to run everything. > >DPDT, with center off? That should work. You just need to make sure that nothing with a higher power requirement is turned on when you switch. The switch that I used is rated at over 50 amps but I still turn off almost everything to minimize arcing. >That might be more sensible than fooling with the plug. I think so. It also gives you the option of installing a higher power inverter in the future and powering other things without installing extra plugs and wiring. >> This mess would only require 1 or 2 amps of AC to run everything. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > inverter in the future and powering other things without installing > extra plugs and wiring. I follow your thinking there, Wayne, but I think is would be a good idea to keep this part of the AC circuit separate. This is the "delicate" stuff. The rest of the AC equipment is the dumb stuff like the water heater, fans, and air conditioner. That all I have aboard the AC system right now. That stuff is pretty much immune to minor variations in the AC supply. But the expensive and delicate digital stuff I'd keep off by itself. I wonder how a small battery backup and the inverter would get along together? Richard >The rest of the AC equipment is the dumb stuff like the water heater, >fans, and air conditioner. That all I have aboard the AC system right now. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Richard On Barbara I have a 24V computer wired into the house system but the monitor (Acer 22" LCD) is AC and runs from the genset or inverter. When I switch from one to the other it just goes off then on again and doesn't seem to care. Michael Porter Michael Porter Marine Design mporter at mp-marine dot com www.mp-marine.com |
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