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Boat Forum / Cruising / July 2009in-mast furlers
Man, I hate them. Perhaps some are better than others, but the last experience I had with them was that you have to be dead into the wind for unfurling, but especially for furling. There's so much friction between the sail and the track groove that I was concerned we would damage the sail. Headed directly into the wind isn't always a problem, but it can be when the wind is shifting constantly (an example is the hurricane gulch area on the bay). In other areas, this is also possible, so it seems like it's a lot of pain for very little gain. I also wasn't thrilled with the outhaul and furling lines (a continuous line that's got two clutches). We couldn't get the main all the way out (the clew position is marked on the boom). At first I thought it was mis-marked, but then when we anchored for lunch, I went up there and we examined it closely. There was still a wrap or two inside the mast. Sitting at anchor, we tugged and heaved and finally got it all the way out, then furled it back and unfurled it a couple of times to ensure it was going to work when we needed it. Maybe there's an adjustment, but not in the middle of a class. The furling mechanism has a "ratchet" position, which is basically the outhaul lock for furling, and a free-style position for unfurling. So, bottom line, you still have send someone up there to switch it if you need to power up or if you need to set the reef point. With normal non-furling mains, you might need to go forward (or not, depending on your reefing system), but I thought the whole point was to make things more simple. Doesn't seem that simple to me, not to mention the position switch is none too easy to use - it seemed to be pretty stiff.  Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com >Man, I hate them. Perhaps some are better than others, but the last >experience I had with them was that you have to be dead into the wind for [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Doesn't seem that simple to me, not to mention the position switch is none >too easy to use - it seemed to be pretty stiff. Interesting as in-mast furlers are becoming more and more common among the boats that I see here (and you got to sail quite a long way to get here) and not to mention that Amel installs in-mast furlers as standard. I'm not quite sure what make/model of furler you are using as all the manual systems I see use two lines, furling and outhaul/unfurling, and both lines run back to the cockpit. The system I built is not "in-mast" and of course doesn't have any sail to housing friction but I furl and unfurl alone with no particular problems. I do use a cockpit mounted winch to get the last few inches on the outhaul, but then most slab furling systems use a "furling winch" for the same purpose. I don't believe that a furler is the theoretical "best" form of sail reducing but I can tell you from personal experience that it does result in more sail being up for longer periods then the old slab reefing system. Mainly because it is easier physically to make or reduce sail so I reef later and make sail earlier then I would with the old system. And talking about winches and difficulty in getting sail set, I defy you to get the last few inches of main sail hauled up without a winch on my boat with the old slab reefing system. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) >>Man, I hate them. Perhaps some are better than others, but the last >>experience I had with them was that you have to be dead into the wind for [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > here) and not to mention that Amel installs in-mast furlers as > standard. I know they are. Perhaps it's just a crappy mechanism. It would match the boat in that respect. > I'm not quite sure what make/model of furler you are using as all the > manual systems I see use two lines, furling and outhaul/unfurling, and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > few inches on the outhaul, but then most slab furling systems use a > "furling winch" for the same purpose. Do tell... what kind of system did you build? Do you have pictures? > I don't believe that a furler is the theoretical "best" form of sail > reducing but I can tell you from personal experience that it does > result in more sail being up for longer periods then the old slab > reefing system. Mainly because it is easier physically to make or > reduce sail so I reef later and make sail earlier then I would with > the old system. In some respects that's good and others bad. If one waits too long and there's a problem with the mechanism, well.... > And talking about winches and difficulty in getting sail set, I defy > you to get the last few inches of main sail hauled up without a winch > on my boat with the old slab reefing system. I can't get my main to the top without a winch either, unless there's minimal wind. Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com FWIW. my boat had in mast furling when I bought it. It took a while to become accustomed to it, but it works. If I had my druthers I would have a furl boom system. I found that you only furl and unfurl on a starboard tack . A real pain if the wind is off the port. We can furl, unfurl,and reef from the cockpit and I do like that. You give up a battened main. The boom furl has none of the aforementioned drawbacks and the weight aloft is also less. > FWIW. my boat had in mast furling when I bought it. It took a while > to become accustomed to it, but it works. If I had my druthers I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > up a battened main. The boom furl has none of the aforementioned > drawbacks and the weight aloft is also less. I've only sailed on one boat with boom furling... must agree. I like it a lot better, and if you need to drop the sail, you can still do it if the furler fails. It does increase windage, due to boom size, but perhaps that's not that big of a deal. Strange about starboard vs. port. That wasn't true for us last time, as we had equally as difficult a time on both tacks, high though they were. Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com >> FWIW. my boat had in mast furling when I bought it. It took a while >> to become accustomed to it, but it works. If I had my druthers I [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Strange about starboard vs. port. That wasn't true for us last time, as we > had equally as difficult a time on both tacks, high though they were. I had a 34' boat with boom furling for about 14 years. The roll was achieved with a worm gear which allowed you to stop anywhere without it running back. The control was on the starboard side which makes sense especially if you are shorthanded because you have right of way against anyone on port tack and thus more likely to finish the reefing without having to run back to the helm. The disadvantage was that after rolling the equivalent of a couple of reefs the end of the boom had come down so it was almost brushing the top of the spray dodger. However this effect can be minimised by adding padding either to the sail itself or affixed to the boom > FWIW. my boat had in mast furling when I bought it. It took a while >to become accustomed to it, but it works. If I had my druthers I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >up a battened main. The boom furl has none of the aforementioned >drawbacks and the weight aloft is also less. There was a boat in the marina. Built in N.Z. with in boom reefing. The two blokes that owned it had built it to participate in the "cruising boat" class in the various regattas sailed in Asia, so I assume that some thought had been given to the efficiency of the reefing system - they had at least two mains that I saw. One a purpose built racing sail. I talked to both the owners and the only comment that they had about the reefing system was that the makers had recommended that reefing be done at less then (I believe) 35 degrees of boom angle. Other then the dorky looking boom I thought it was probably the most efficient of the roll up reefing systems. Funny, you know. I remember when roll up on the boom reefing systems were being bad mouthed in the sailing community. Now it is high tech :-) Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) > I can't get my main to the top without a winch either, unless > there's minimal wind. External halyards and good slide/track mechanism makes most of that go away. Had a 30ft Seafarer with a high aspect sail plan (small main, only 10 ft boom) and external halyards. Never had a problem with the main. Lew >> I can't get my main to the top without a winch either, unless there's >> minimal wind. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Lew I have an in-mast halyard. I need to improve the slide/track situation. Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com >>> I can't get my main to the top without a winch either, unless there's >>> minimal wind. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> >> Lew >I have an in-mast halyard. I need to improve the slide/track situation. Well mine was a high tech design. The boom was on a slide so you wound sail and boom up to the "black band" and then you tensioned the bluff with a Cunningham attached to the bottom of the gooseneck. With 40 ft. of luff length and a nice strong boom and gooseneck (read heavy) and a cruising sail it was not a trivial project the get the whole kit and kaboodle wound up and cleated. Then of course you have to tension the luff. Reefing was a particular pain as the first couple of feet of halyard just let the boom descend. then pull in the reef and then you got to go through the whole rigamoral of hoisting and tensioning again. One of the main reasons I built the roller reefing system. Cheers, Bruce (bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom) > I have an in-mast halyard. I need to improve the slide/track > situation. I forget the name of the outfit I was looking at, they were based in FL. They would send you a plastic gage to get the correct size of your track. Try this one, it rings a bell: http://preview.tinyurl.com/l6k27m Lew >> I have an in-mast halyard. I need to improve the slide/track situation. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Lew Yeah, I've been looking at these... I believe Salty recommended it as well. Perhaps next season. It's not that difficult that I'd spend the money on it right now. I was thinking I'd wait for when I need to replace my main, but that's going to be a while. Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com > Yeah, I've been looking at these... I believe Salty recommended it > as well. What caught my eye was their business model. Pick a problem in a specialty market, then provide a solution. Somehow I think you would be happy with them. Lew >> Yeah, I've been looking at these... I believe Salty recommended it as >> well. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Lew Maybe. But, I ususally create my own problems. lol Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com >>> I can't get my main to the top without a winch either, unless there's >>> minimal wind. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >I have an in-mast halyard. I need to improve the slide/track situation. Tides Marine has an excellent system for a LOT less moola than Harken. Makes the main feel like it's not even attached to the mast. About $25 a foot, complete, and you can install it yourself. >>>> I can't get my main to the top without a winch either, unless there's >>>> minimal wind. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Makes the main feel like it's not even attached to the mast. About $25 > a foot, complete, and you can install it yourself. Did you install the receptacle on the sail yourself or did you have the loft do it? Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com >>>>> I can't get my main to the top without a winch either, unless there's >>>>> minimal wind. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Did you install the receptacle on the sail yourself or did you have the loft >do it? Did it all myself. Only problem I had with the installation was that I measured a little too tight for how the track fit into the mast, and had a bit of a struggle getting it all the way up the mast slot. In retrospect, It really doesn't need to be a terribly precise or tight fit at all. I called and spoke to the guy who custom cuts the track a few times, and he was great to deal with. I would recommend that you talk to him on the phone after you take the measurements to tell him what you came up with. He may even have measurements from a sister ship to compare to what you find. They send you a kit with plastic gauges and instructions for the measuring. I think they charge a small fee for the kit, but ceredit it back from your order. If I had to do it over, I would take the measurements and ask them to send a short sample piece first, especially if you play to install it with the mast up. I'm guessing they would probably be willing to do that. They really seem to want happy customers. >>>>>> I can't get my main to the top without a winch either, unless there's >>>>>> minimal wind. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > with the mast up. I'm guessing they would probably be willing to do > that. They really seem to want happy customers. Sounds like a great company to work with. I've found a few of those out there... actually care about customers or potential customers. My main concern (slight pun intended) is the sail attachment. Reading their website, they recommend the loft do it, which is fine with me. That would add a bit to the cost, but since I don't have time these days, money is the second choice. :-) Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com >>>>>>> I can't get my main to the top without a winch either, unless there's >>>>>>> minimal wind. [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >add a bit to the cost, but since I don't have time these days, money is the >second choice. :-) I didn't find that part of the job difficult at all, and wonder to this day why they recommend havng the loft do that. I snipped off my existing plastic slugs and simply used the remaining nylon web loops that had held them, for the new slides, which mount using a pin with cotter rings at each end. The batten swivels wrere no big deal either. They pretty much covered where the old batten swivels had been, as they are slightly larger. Anyone with half a brain can do it, so you're IN! <G> >>>>>>>> I can't get my main to the top without a winch either, unless >>>>>>>> there's [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > Anyone with half a brain can do it, so you're IN! <G> I think I think; therefore, I think I am. Signature"j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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