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Boat Forum / Electronics / September 2004New GPS
Can anyone suggest a GPS Chartplotter that is user friendly. I want one that is easy to operate and understand. Thank You, Al Porreca How much do you want to spend? I've found the Garmin's pretty user friendly, but you can spend anywhere from $500 to $2500 on a Garmin chartplotter.  SignatureChuck Tribolet triblet@garlic.com http://www.almaden.ibm.com/cs/people/triblet Silicon Valley: STILL the best day job in the world. > Can anyone suggest a GPS Chartplotter that is user friendly. I want one that > is easy to operate and understand. > > Thank You, > Al Porreca I second the plug for Garmin. You can get a GPSMAP 76 for about $250 now, the "S" for $300, the "C" for $400. Since I use the chartplotter to augment paper charts (rather than the other way around) a handheld is just fine for me. However, if I got one of the newer large screen color chart plotters, I'd probably never use paper again! > How much do you want to spend? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Thank You, > > Al Porreca Actually, Jeff, I love my Garmin 182 C. I use it all the time to track speed accurately and to keep on course. It is hardwired on my Regal. But, I still plot longer trips on charts, always consult charts for strange waters, plot courses on charts before plugging in waypoints and during those rare times when things get dicey, you can't beat charts for giving you the view you want immediately without having to hit the right buttons (e.g., zoom in and out) at the right time. So, you are right, while underway you will rarely consult a chart, us old salts (farts?) are not likely to surrender our paper charts either for navigation or figuring out how to get out of those dicey times. harlan > I second the plug for Garmin. You can get a GPSMAP 76 for about $250 now, > the [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > > Thank You, > > > Al Porreca SignatureTo respond, obviously drop the "nospan"? Garmin 182C. Best customer service you'll ever find. Buy them on eBay. Capt. Jeff Second the 182C. Bought mine new through ebay for tremendous discount and have had great luck with it. One comment - go color. T > Garmin 182C. Best customer service you'll ever find. Buy them on eBay. > > Capt. Jeff Readers should be aware that "Bobsprit" better known on other newsgroups as "The Boob", "Boobsprit" and "Boobshit" among other "handles knows nothing about boats or boating equipment. The Boob's boat is old and loaded with antiquated equipment therefore he spends his lonely days and nights attempting to bash other people stuff. Most consider Northstar chartplotters as the standard all others are compared to. I've owned a 951XD and now own a 952XDW and I've never experienced any type of fogging. The units are waterproof! S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "Trains are a winter sport" Most consider Northstar chartplotters as the standard all others are compared to. I've owned a 951XD and now own a 952XDW and I've never experienced any type of fogging. The units are waterproof!>> Right, Loco. So that guy is lying and so am I, right? Garmin leads the industry for a reason. Failures are rare and service is fantastic. I'm glad that you enjoy your units, but you don't do more than daysail by your own admission. You're not qualified to comment. Besides the Radar, all my gear is newer than yours by a mile. There is just no group you won't troll in, Loco. Now you can have the last word, dumbass. Proof that you are the ultimate PIA troll. Go for it! RB <<<<<<Right, Loco. So that guy is lying and so am I, right?>>>>> Yes you are. I don't know about the other guy. <<Garmin leads the industry for a reason.>> And the reason is they make $99 handhelds that are sold at Best Buy. Garmin makes good units but they don't compare with Northstar. Garmin leads in sales $ only. <<<<<<<I'm glad that you enjoy your units, but you don't do more than daysail by your own admission. You're not qualified to comment.>>>> LOL............... So many years of using a GPS for racing don't count? I also own a Garmin handheld and a Micrologic handheld. I think I'm qualified to comment on the Northstar. According to you one has to sleep aboard to be qualified to use a GPS .... is that right. As always, GO AWAY, YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BOATS. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "Trains are a winter sport" We love our Navman 5600. Doug s/v Callista > Can anyone suggest a GPS Chartplotter that is user friendly. I want one > that > is easy to operate and understand. > > Thank You, > Al Porreca I have a Garmin 182C and I think its about the best piece of equipment I have. Very easy to use. Very accurate with the Bluechart chip I have. I have it mounted at my steering station where I can get constant info on speed, course, VMG and even tides. A black and white version might be OK but the colour does help quite a bit. I think Garmin is generally considered to have very user friendly operating systems. > Can anyone suggest a GPS Chartplotter that is user friendly. I want one that > is easy to operate and understand. > > Thank You, > Al Porreca Love Garmin. I have the 162 and I paid around $200 for it. VERY easy to use. I have been so impressed with Garmin, I bought their FishFinder 120. > Can anyone suggest a GPS Chartplotter that is user friendly. I want one that > is easy to operate and understand. > > Thank You, > Al Porreca Northstar. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "Trains are a winter sport" Northstar. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster">>> Junk. Go Garmin, who sets the pace for marine units. RB > Northstar. > S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster">>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > RB Northstar is junk? Let me guess, you own a Garmin and have never used a Northstar, right? Jack SignatureJack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com Northstar is junk? Let me guess, you own a Garmin and have never used a Northstar, right?>> Wrong! Here's a review: http://www.epinions.com/pr-Northstar_951XD_GPS_Receiver/display_~reviews Meanwhile, my buddy's P39 had a color version with a screen that lost pixles. ZERO support from company. Always buy products with good support. RB Your epinions link is a data point of one. That's not very compelling. I have a 951 and 6000i. Both work flawlessly. I have spoken with customer support re. upgrades, and they have been very responsive. Do a little more homework before you bash a company. > Northstar is junk? Let me guess, you own a Garmin and have never used a > Northstar, right?>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > RB > Northstar is junk? Let me guess, you own a Garmin and have never used a > Northstar, right?>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > ZERO support from company. > Always buy products with good support. I've made two delivery trips (two days on the water for each) between Maine and the Cape Cod area using Northstars and never saw one fog up. In fact, I have never had a single complaint or problem in using them and have not heard anyone else mention the fogging issue or complain about anything else. If you buddy mailed his warranty card and was still in the two year window, Northstar would have worked on it for him. That requires the unit to be sent in to them (in Acton, Mass., also quite close to that purportedly troublesome Cape Cod Bay area). Their service center has a good reputation for both professionalism and turnaround. I know for a fact that Northstar (and Garmin too) consider bad pixels to be covered under their two year warranties. All in all, I don't find all the specifics in that review to be believable. Jack SignatureJack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com In fact, I have never had a single complaint or problem in using them and have not heard anyone else mention the fogging issue or complain about anything else.>>> Hi, Jack... In all honesty I have heard of these units having problems. I work for a yard that does a lot of installs. Garmin is prefered by many. I know Northstar markets as a premium brand, but I have heard more than a few problems, fogging being a primary factor. Nutjobs like Loco can believe that the products they've chosen are "best" but that's the opinion of an individual. I'll stick with Garmin. RB <<<Hi, Jack... In all honesty I have heard of these units having problems. I work for a yard that does a lot of installs. Garmin is prefered by many. I know Northstar markets as a premium brand, but I have heard more than a few problems, fogging being a primary factor. Nutjobs like Loco can believe that the products they've chosen are "best" but that's the opinion of an individual. I'll stick with Garmin.>>>>>>>> What a line of bull. Works in a boatyard? Doing what? Tell us. On other newsgroups the Boobster claims to be a wedding photographer, an ebay tycoon, a boat broaker, anything but a real job. I guess every defective Northstar shows up at the skanky marina in N.Y. that the Boob hangs out at. Most people buy Garmin because of the overwhelming amount of advertising and promotion that the company and their dealers do. They make good units and offer a big selection. They have great factory support. But a Northstar they ain't. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "Trains are a winter sport" > Most people buy Garmin because of the overwhelming amount of advertising and >promotion that the company and their dealers do. They make good units and >offer a big selection. They have great factory support. But a Northstar they >ain't. >S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" >"Trains are a winter sport" Actually, many people buy a Garmin specifically so they can use the superior Garmin Charts. And I'm very glad "a Northstar they ain't". BB <<<Actually, many people buy a Garmin specifically so they can use the superior Garmin Charts. And I'm very glad "a Northstar they ain't".>>> So what do you consider Navionics? Inferior? Why would so many professionals use Navionics? S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "Trains are a winter sport" ><<<Actually, many people buy a Garmin specifically so they can use the >superior Garmin Charts. And I'm very glad "a Northstar they ain't".>>> > >So what do you consider Navionics? Inferior? Why would so many professionals >use Navionics? Do you know why carpenters use a folding wooden ruler? It's not because it's better than a retractable metal ruler. It's because they get paid by the hour, and all the folding and unfolding runs up the tab. Professionals sometimes do things for reasons that are not immediatelly obvious to the ignorant. Perhaps many professionals use Navionics because the company supplied free gear to whatever school they attended. Maybe it's because the professionals are piloting boats that belong to someone else, who got an incentive to buy "brand x". Maybe people who build commecial boats are getting kickbacks. Maybe more professionals would prefer Garmin and it's accurate charts if they were given an opportunity to try it. The Garmin BlueCharts are superior to the competition. I have yet to see a GPS/chartplotter review where Garmin charts were anywhere but number ONE. I have, however, seen reviews where the reviewer said they liked some of the other hardware a little better, and wished that they could use the Garmin charts. If they could, they might have beat Garmin in the overall competition. I have yet to see ONE review where the conclusion was that a slightly easier to use unit with inferior charts was better than a Garmin. There is certainly nothing seriously deficient about Garmin hardware, or the reviewers would have likely said that good software wasn't enough to put them over the top. Charts that are accurate are pretty important. As an experienced sailor, I'd say they are more important than a slightly more "user friendly" piece of hardware to run them on. Customer service? Don't make me laugh! BB <<<The Garmin BlueCharts are superior to the competition. I have yet to see a GPS/chartplotter review where Garmin charts were anywhere but number ONE.>> I think you should read a few more reviews. Navionics produces raster charts which are considered the most accurate and the ones reviewers and everyone else considers the best electronic charts. Garmin ain't doing raster charts. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "Trains are a winter sport" ><<<The Garmin BlueCharts are superior to the competition. I have yet to see a >GPS/chartplotter review where Garmin charts were anywhere but number ONE.>> > >I think you should read a few more reviews. Navionics produces raster charts >which are considered the most accurate and the ones reviewers and everyone else >considers the best electronic charts. Absolutely wrong. Now you are just making things up. > Garmin ain't doing raster charts. Why on earth would they, when they have the charts that set the standard by which all others are judged? >S/V Express 30 "Dingalingmaster" >"For brains I'm a little short" ><<<The Garmin BlueCharts are superior to the competition. I have yet to see a >GPS/chartplotter review where Garmin charts were anywhere but number ONE.>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" >"Trains are a winter sport" Please explain how a raster chart is more accurate than a vector chart. Answer : it ain't. Hmmmmmm When Navionics wants to have a chart capable of layering, it HAS to go to a vector format. Navionics does indeed have vector charting available. Ps Garmin does not use Navionic information for their Blue Charts. This is total nonsense. Do you even understand the difference between Raster and Vector? The current Navionics marketing claim is that their charts "have the appearance" of raster charts, not that they are raster charts. > <<<The Garmin BlueCharts are superior to the competition. I have yet to see a > GPS/chartplotter review where Garmin charts were anywhere but number ONE.>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" > "Trains are a winter sport" This is total nonsense. Do you even understand the difference between Raster and Vector? The current Navionics marketing claim is that their charts "have the appearance" of raster charts, not that they are raster charts.>> Loco loses again. It's sad, really. ><<<Actually, many people buy a Garmin specifically so they can use the >superior Garmin Charts. And I'm very glad "a Northstar they ain't".>>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" >"Trains are a winter sport" Having used Blue Charts, C-Maps and Navionics I much prefer Navionics. Rick Itenson Breathless Toronto > ><<<Actually, many people buy a Garmin specifically so they can use the > >superior Garmin Charts. And I'm very glad "a Northstar they ain't".>>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Breathless > Toronto I would proceed with caution using any of the "superior" Garmin charts. Just in our local waters we have found several errors that will cost you dearly if you don't test the waters before you trust their charts. <snip> > I would proceed with caution using any of the "superior" Garmin charts. Just > in our local waters we have found several errors that will cost you dearly > if you don't test the waters before you trust their charts. Were the errors unique to the Garmin chart chip or was the same error found on a USGS or NOAA paper chart? I think all the companies making chart chips for U.S. waters start with the same data (from USGS or NOAA sources) and then they make vector or raster charts based on that data. So if you find errors on a chart chip and can look at the chart it was based on, you may see the error there too. Jack SignatureJack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com > <snip> > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Jack The errors that were found involve markers in the channel leading through the bayou where I work. it is possible that the markers were replaced after hurricane Opal in '95. We don't use the chart chips to navigate because we have extensive knowledge of the local waters and can run using visual cues or radar. I have never checked the marker positions against those on the current charts and would not be surprised if they were off. Chart plotters and chips are fine, but we never use them as a primary means of navigating any boat we crew. Our captains will use a combination Nobeltec software along with paper charts during most trips. I'm not out to slam Garmin or anyone else as I have a bunch of their equipment installed on our boats and boats belonging to our customers. All I can say is don't let the electronics do all the thinking for you. <snip> > The errors that were found involve markers in the channel leading through > the bayou where I work. it is possible that the markers were replaced after [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > equipment installed on our boats and boats belonging to our customers. All I > can say is don't let the electronics do all the thinking for you. Then I'd say the kind of errors you found are common. I helped bring a boat up the ICW from Florida this spring and we had the newest Navionics chart chips and new MapTech chart books and there many times when disagreements were noted between the electronic and paper data and the real world. In a couple of instances the GPS lat/long readout or a visible and obvious local feature is what nailed down the the fact that the charting was wrong. Once or twice we ran a string of day marks that had been re-numbered but that not was on reflected in the charts yet. And, like you, I don't really expect it all to be right on the money anyway. My feeling is if you have two or three sources of data available to localize yourself with, you're asking for trouble if you're not using most of them most of the time. I really enjoy playing the coastal navigation game and keeping my head in it. People that say bringing a boat up the ICW is boring are probably not paying enough attention to what is going on. I really liked having the chart plotter showing two magenta lines that depicted the original location of the dredged channel. There were some areas where you could watch the bottom start coming up from the ambient depth and you could usually count on being right if you eased boat back towards the original centerline. There was a lot of times where just eyeballing it would not have put you in the right place. The owner of the boat thought he could eyeball it from the flybridge with no navaids and a broken fathometer readout and he frequently polished the screws in the silt. Sometimes we'd be at the primary helm station watching the plotter and sounder as he drifted out of the channel and we'd tell him where the channel was and which way to go to get back in it and he'd want to argue about it. We finally just started letting him nibble at the mud and run it aground as much as he wanted, it was his boat. Jack -- Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com > <snip> > > [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > -- > Jack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com I think the biggest problem with all the new electronics is the faith put in them buy unsalted owners. At times we have new people on the boats that will lay out a GPS course and go. Then we have to remind them to look outside the boat as they are making their way from waypoint to waypoint. I recently made a run in the ditch between Panama City Fl. and Pensacola using waypoints hand plotted by one of the captains. Out of all his plots he had only 2 that were fuzzy, but they were caught when we made the run. The nav software on the laptop in the pilot house was good, but also not 100%. We have a boat making the same run today and I'm keen to see how it turns out as the second captain is using the nav software to pull his waypoints. <snip> >I think the biggest problem with all the new electronics is the faith put in >them buy unsalted owners. At times we have new people on the boats that will >lay out a GPS course and go. Then we have to remind them to look outside the >boat as they are making their way from waypoint to waypoint. It's the mental set of the new boaters. They have been told how wonderful the electronics are and they never question them or their performance. It's this "blind faith" that leads to trouble. The reason I want to use celestial offshore is to retain the uncertanty in the back of my mind. That little ghost-voice saying, "You're not really at that spot on the chart. You're somewhere around that spot... maybe." Mark E. Williams > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > wonderful the electronics are and they never question them or their > performance. It's this "blind faith" that leads to trouble. In all fairness to the makers of the electronics, they do warn people about the inherent problems during startup and the like but people generally don't read that or remember it. There are similar warnings on charts too. > The reason I want to use celestial offshore is to retain the > uncertanty in the back of my mind. That little ghost-voice saying, > "You're not really at that spot on the chart. You're somewhere around > that spot... maybe." Great idea! I wonder, when you buy a sextant now does it have a warning label on it somewhere too? I never got around to playing with sextants but if I owned a cruising boat I'm sure I would have one on board and would play with it. And then I would then look at a GPS to see how well I was doing with it. Has anyone ever had a GPS that generated a apparently good fix that was grossly inaccurate? A position that had a typically good EPE but was just flat way wrong? If I was going to equip a life boat I might give a modern, waterproof, handheld GPS and some batteries higher consideration over a sextant. If I had not been found or grounded by the time that quit working, the sun, moon, and stars would be the backup. :>) SignatureJack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com > If I was going to equip a life boat I might give a modern, waterproof, > handheld GPS and some batteries higher consideration over a sextant. If > I had not been found or grounded by the time that quit working, the sun, > moon, and stars would be the backup. :>) The R/V that I ride carries an A3 comm consol along with a SART and 406 EPIRB. You can hit 3 red buttons and grab the SART out of it's rack outside the pilot house on your way to the lifeboat. The captains are constantly working on upgrading their licenses and the company helps foot the bill for training (this includes celestial navigation, bridge management, basic Radar, ARPA and other). Overall, I feel very safe while working on the boat. It's the thought of those that have no clue that bother me. Just in the last year, in our area, we have had a large boat crash into the jetties, one into a dredge pipe and another aground. No good excuse for the jetty thing, the pipe guy claimed he never saw the yellow strobes and the grounding guy was running on his GPS course. >> The reason I want to use celestial offshore is to retain the >> uncertanty in the back of my mind. That little ghost-voice saying, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Great idea! I wonder, when you buy a sextant now does it have a warning >label on it somewhere too? LOL, not sure if sextants have a warning label but they probably do. Don't get me wrong, I think that GPS is great and wouldn't be without one on a boat. Modern electronics are a boon to modern navigation. They do however lead to a mind-set of unquestioning certanty. So use them but don't put blind faith in them is all I'm saying. >I never got around to playing with sextants but if I owned a cruising >boat I'm sure I would have one on board and would play with it. And >then I would then look at a GPS to see how well I was doing with it. There are a lot of uncertanties with celestial navigation. Small bouncing boats don't make the best platforms for accurate sites. Then there are math errors and errors looking in the tables. These lead to a more cautious mind-set. People (and not only beginners) tend to set too few waypoints without checking the chart to see if there is anything to avoid hitting on their intended track. LOL, even one of the Cruise Ships did this and ended up running into the cliff side of a island. >Has anyone ever had a GPS that generated a apparently good fix that was >grossly inaccurate? A position that had a typically good EPE but was >just flat way wrong? This was discussed not long ago in another of the boat groups. It was said that there are dead spots around (North Carolina anyway ). >If I was going to equip a life boat I might give a modern, waterproof, >handheld GPS and some batteries higher consideration over a sextant. If >I had not been found or grounded by the time that quit working, the sun, >moon, and stars would be the backup. :>) A handheld VHF with plenty of waterproofed batteries might be more valuable than a GPS because most liferafts can't really be steered. Airliners and ships generaly can pick up your VHF. Mark E. Williams Actually, many people buy a Garmin specifically so they can use the superior Garmin Charts. And I'm very glad "a Northstar they ain't".>>> Bill, let him rant. He'll troll anywhere. Now he's furious that I hurt his GPS' feelings. What a nutjob. By the way, I'm about to pick up a 276c from Garmin. My friend has one aboard the Tayana 48 and it's a stunning (if somewhat large) unit that works great as a handheld. This is to replace the smaller GPSMAP 76 that was stolen. Thank god for insurance! RB <<<,,,,Bill, let him rant. He'll troll anywhere. Now he's furious that I hurt his GPS' feelings. What a nutjob.>>>> Boob, don't flatter yourself. You couldn't hurt my feelings about anything boat related. You only supply me with laughs. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "Trains are a winter sport" <<<By the way, I'm about to pick up a 276c from Garmin>>>> Cute little unit. You wouldn't want to spend more for your old boat. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "Trains are a winter sport" I find the Navman as easy to use as the Gamin. Doug s/v CAllista > Northstar. > S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster">>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > RB >I find the Navman as easy to use as the Gamin. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> >> RB I was considering the Navman before I purchased my Garmin 182C. The Garmin charts seemed a bit better and the display is certainly better. I was wondering what Brunswick was going to do with Navman since they now own the company. Perhaps "SeaRay" brand navigation equipment instead of RayMarine in their boats. BTW, Garmin is coming out with Radar and an XM or similar radio function that will be able to show weather maps right on the chartplotter. This sounds very interesting. Do you have any timeline on the Garmin Radar/XM radio link? I am aware in their avionics products line that the XM link is used to display radar NexRad info about every 5 mins. Also, Jeppesen, a major aviation navigation charting firm, is supposedly going to market a predicted radar display along route of travel for up to 4 hours in advance. Probably won't migrate to the boating community very soon, if ever. Doug K7ABX > >I find the Navman as easy to use as the Gamin. > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > This sounds very interesting. >Do you have any timeline on the Garmin Radar/XM radio link? >I am aware in their avionics products line that the XM link is used to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >won't migrate to the boating community very soon, if ever. >Doug K7ABX Garmin Launches Marine Network: GPS, Weather, Sonar, and Radar XM Radio is enabling a range of new satellite based information producsts to flourish. Olathe KA - Apr 15, 2004 Garmin International has announced the Garmin Marine Network, a fully-integrated, plug-and-play system that puts GPS, weather, sonar, radar, and other important data literally at a boater's fingertips. "The Garmin Marine Network integrates important information to give mariners complete awareness of what's happening around them," said Gary Kelley, Garmin's director of marketing. "We've designed the system from the ground up to provide highly-detailed, highly-reliable, yet easy-to-use information that lets a boater make informed decisions and enjoy their time on the water." The anchors of the new Garmin Marine Network are the GPSMAP 3010C and GPSMAP 3006C -- two multifunction displays (MFDs) that show data in a user- configurable format. Both units are waterproof and feature a sunlight readable, 256-color, 640x480-pixel VGA display in either a 10.4" or 6.4" diagonal screen size, respectively. The MFDs are powered by a high-speed processor and graphics controller for fast redraw of charts and weather graphics. Like earlier generations of Garmin chartplotters, the 3010C and 3006C are completely compatible with Garmin's award-winning BlueChart marine cartography. The GPSMAP 3010C and 3006C communicate with the Garmin Marine Network through a 100-megabit Garmin proprietary network. The entire system is waterproof and completely plug-and-play -- the MFDs automatically detect any and all peripherals once they're connected. Boaters can connect a GPS antenna and one remote sensor directly to the MFD, or, with the addition of the GMS 10 Network Port Expander, users can connect multiple MFDs and sensors to the same network. Each networked MFD can be configured independently. A unique feature to the Garmin Marine Network is the addition of the GDL 30 weather data receiver. Through a partnership with the XM WX Satellite Weather data service, mariners for the first time can access real- time graphical weather data directly on the GPSMAP 3010C or 3006C -- without the need for a separate PC interface. For those wanting more than 120 channels of XM Satellite Radio along with weather data, Garmin also offers the GDL 30A -- which provides a unique audio channel interface on the 3010C and 3006C in addition to weather data. XM WX Satellite Weather relays a continuous transmission of more than 15 different types of graphical weather information, including animated NEXRAD weather radar and forecasts, pressure, visibility, precipitation, wind data, wave data, and sea surface temperatures -- for the boat's current location, along a projected path, or anywhere in the U.S. The weather information is directly overlaid onto the chartplotter display. Coverage is nationwide and extends several hundred miles offshore. The GPSMAP 3010C and 3006C receive sonar data through the GSD 20, Garmin's proprietary "black box" sounder, which offers 4,000 watts of power peak-to- peak (500 watts RMS) in a dual-frequency transducer. This system will be compatible with Garmin's new marine radar that is expected for the 2005 marine season. More information on the radar should be available in late 2004. The Garmin Marine Network also offers a unique network upgrade system. The user simply prompts the MFD to read the current software version of all components within the network, and writes them onto a Garmin data card. Then, the user uploads this data via a PC to the Garmin website, where the newest software versions are downloaded to the data card. The entire system is automatically updated once the card is re-inserted in the MFD. http://www.spacedaily.com/news/xm-radio-04f.html >Do you have any timeline on the Garmin Radar/XM radio link? >I am aware in their avionics products line that the XM link is used to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >won't migrate to the boating community very soon, if ever. >Doug K7ABX A bit more info.. http://www.garmin.com/pressroom/marine/041404a.html <snip> > BTW, Garmin is coming out with Radar and an XM or similar radio function > that will be able to show weather maps right on the chartplotter. > > This sounds very interesting. Yep, Some details are here http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap3006c/ and here http://www.garmin.com/marinenetworking/. I love looking at the electronic toys, and these look like nice ones. I am wondering about their "proprietary ethernet-based network" though. It seems like being able to have a PC on that network too would be a nice to have feature and I don't see one there yet. PC's in one form or another are more common on boats all the time. Both Furuno and Raymarine networks will include a PC, I'm thinking Garmin will get one into the picture eventually. Or did I miss it already? Jack SignatureJack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com Doesn't Garmin use CMAP cartridges? Doug s/v Callista >>I find the Navman as easy to use as the Gamin. >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > This sounds very interesting. Garmin products do not accept C-MAP electronic charts. The following link will show which OEM's accept our charts. http://www.c-map.com/OEMs/OEMList.ASP?NorthAmericanBased=1&PlotterDataFormatID=5 &PlotterStatusID=1 J. McQuade C-MAP/USA >Doesn't Garmin use CMAP cartridges? > >Doug >s/v Callista Garmin uses their own "BlueChart" chips. One thing I like about my Garmin 182c is the ability to update the software. I purchased a power supply / serial port adapter from garmin for about $45.00 US and can download firmware/software updates from Garmin and shoot them into my 182C at home. For the new units, I noticed their is some kind of chip to do this so you don't have to remove the plotter from your boat. Garmin is what I'm experienced with on the Great Lakes and have found the unit quality, chart quality and service to be excellent. > Doesn't Garmin use CMAP cartridges? > > Doug > s/v Callista They do not. They use only Garmin proprietary chips. Garmin is discontinuing support for their original "G-Chart" chips later this year. They will not sell any more new G-Chart chips, will not update the data on the old ones, and as far as I know that puts that chip dead in the water as far as any further updates. All their newer stuff uses a slightly less proprietary, similar appearing (but not interchangeable) storage media called a "Blue Chart Data Card". The Data Cards are available in a range of sizes (8 to 256MB?). You can buy pre-programmed data cards by area or region. Or you can buy a Blue Chart CD-ROM with most or all of the world on it and pay to unlock regions as you go. Once a region is unlocked, you can use a USB data card programmer (also sold by Garmin) on a PC to burn the charting data to a Data Card and use it in your Garmin chart plotter. The blank data cards and USB port programmers are fairly available at prices less than Garmin charges, I would shop online or on eBay for them before I bought them from Garmin. Once you unlock a region, you can manipulate the the data to your hearts content on any PC with CD-ROM drive. There is software on the CD for doing that. Anything copied to a data card is tied to your specific chart plotter by serial number or something in hardware in the plotter unit and that data card will not work in any other, otherwise compatible, chart plotter. That dispels any notions of sharing chart data with friends and the like. The Blue Chart and data card thing is attractive to me in that you can work all your trip planning, routing, waypoints, and stuff out on a PC, burn your own chart chip (including backup copies if you want), and take them to the boat if you are not already on it. I don't think there is a great cost advantage in buying Garmin's cartography and am not sure if it holds it own with the older, long established, charting folks (C-Map, Nobletech, etc.) or not. I have not used a Garmin chart plotter yet or had hands on one for any reason. But I'd be surprised to find that Garmin is not doing a good job on it, it looks like they are doing a good job of pursuing a bigger share of the market. It would be good for boaters if there was only one major chart chip used by most of the chart plotters and the competition was in selling data CD's and the cost of unlocking needed regions. As it is now, a few companies have the boaters over a barrel on chart chips to some extent. What chart chips you already have can often force the decision on which chart plotter you buy next. I am not advocating anyone or anything here, just talking about it. And I might have some of the specifics a little garbled too, I'm not too deeply immersed in all this. Jack SignatureJack Erbes in Ellsworth, Maine, USA - jacker at midmaine dot com Just thought I'd mention that you can send in your BlueChart chips to Garmin for an updated version. They charge half the price of a new chip on an exchange basis, that is, $150US versus $300US. I was told they update every 6 months although I don't suppose this would apply to every chip. You need to call them to get an RMA. As for detail and accuracy, I don't see how you could get much better than what is shown by these chips (for the areas they cover in detail). > > Doesn't Garmin use CMAP cartridges? > > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > Jack <<<Just thought I'd mention that you can send in your BlueChart chips to Garmin for an updated version. They charge half the price of a new chip on an exchange basis, >>>> Navionics provides the same service and they also go one better. Most Navionics dealers have the equipment and authorization to update your chart and you don't have to send it away. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "Trains are a winter sport" ><<<Just thought I'd mention that you can send in your BlueChart chips to Garmin >for an updated version. They charge half the price of a new chip on an [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Navionics dealers have the equipment and authorization to update your chart and >you don't have to send it away. You can go to any West Marine (there are a LOT more West Marines than Navionics dealers) and they can program your Blue Chart chip on site, too. You lose AGAIN!!!! BB <<<<You can go to any West Marine (there are a LOT more West Marines than Navionics dealers) and they can program your Blue Chart chip on site, too. You lose AGAIN!!!!>>>>>>>> Since West Marine is an authorized Navionics dealer how do I loose? If they are now doing Blue Charts that's great. You win. What are you 9 years old? S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "Trains are a winter sport" ><<<<You can go to any West Marine (there are a LOT more West Marines than >Navionics [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Since West Marine is an authorized Navionics dealer how do I loose? If they >are now doing Blue Charts that's great. You win. >The electronics on my boat are 9 years old! >S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" >"Trains are a winter sport" You are 9 years old. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" "Trains are a winter sport" |
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